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Show HN: Spaced Repetition System for iOS
- jmcannon 9y agoHi HN! I first posted CleverDeck about 2.5 years ago and received a lot of support and encouragement from the community. Since then, I've built it out into a more general purpose spaced repetition system and added seven new 3000-word frequency lists for major languages. I launched the big update today (http://cleverdeck.com/blog http://cleverdeck.com/blog) and would love to once again submit it here for feedback. Cheers!
- sbmassey 9y agoWhat are the advantages over Anki?
- jmcannon 9y agoTwo things, I think. First, I was a long time power user of Anki and don't mean to disparage it, but I think CleverDeck has a much better user experience and design. Second, we've spent a tremendous amount of time putting together high quality frequency lists (mostly for languages right now) that incorporate professional imagery, native-speaker audio, transliterations (where relevant), and example sentences. Usually, making or piecing together your own decks and cards is the most time-consuming part of using an SRS - and user content is often of dubious quality. In terms of the spaced repetition, though, CleverDeck and Anki actually use the same algorithm.
- misiti3780 9y agowhere did you get the native speaker audio ?
- jmcannon 9y agoWe recorded it ourselves by interviewing and hiring local to us.
- arkades 9y agoTranslate Bros Anki deck for USMLE into cleverdeck, alongside pathoma and pharm - you'll have every med student in the country signing up annually.
- rimliu 9y agoIs that algorithm public?
- adrianN 9y agoAnki is AGPL. https://github.com/dae/anki https://github.com/dae/anki
- afarrell 9y ago> we've spent a tremendous amount of time putting together high quality frequency lists I've recently started using Anki, but have only found it useful for taking a mental model that I sat down one weekend and learned, and re-enforcing it. How valuable are these frequency lists for learning something entirely new? If I wanted to use them to say, memorise the api exposed by ActiveRecord, would they be useful, or would they ask me a series of questions that I couldn't yet really put in context?
- headconnect 9y agoActually really quite well done, got it after the first posting, and quite enjoyed using it! Still do from time to time, the interface is seriously meditative :)
- dannyh 9y agoSpaced repetition is why drip marketing works. Definitely the way to go when building memory.
- chrischen 9y agoThe UI is great andI love that each one actually has example sentences, but the text isn't selectable and you can't tap to get the definition of other words in the example sentences.
- jmcannon 9y agoThank you! That's a good idea for a feature :)
- herrvogel- 9y agoYeah I had the same idea! While doing the advanced english deck I sometimes wanted to check for translations in my native language.
- glhaynes 9y agoCleverDeck Spaced repetition system for iOS Might be effective to have "memory" in there somewhere? Also, somehow the first 3/4s of the linked page (before scrolling) put me in the frame of "this product is primarily about making my own decks".
- jmcannon 9y agoYeah, I think you're right. The tagline can be improved. I'm kind of doing a balancing act right now - I've built out CleverDeck to be a fully functional SRS that could be used for any subject, and I want to convey that. At the same time, people primarily use it for learning languages and I also want to communicate my dedication and efforts toward that particular niche. I'm sure I can do a better job with messaging. Thanks for your feedback.
- glhaynes 9y agoIMO, the screenshots on your App Store page do a great job of progressively disclosing details on the app starting from its primary value proposition. I'm enjoying the app, which is very nice! I think it, too, could make its bundled content a bit more upfront without losing the emphasis on DIY.
- tsukaisute 9y agoJust downloaded. Quick feedback: flicking away a card takes too long (vertical distance) of a flick. I have to carefully drag it from top to bottom for the card to flick away. Wish it was more sensitive. Perhaps 30% of the screen height is enough of a threshold. Otherwise, thank you. Going to be using this!
- jmcannon 9y agoHmm, I wonder if there's some confusion here. Cards can be swiped left, up, or right - but not from top to bottom. Otherwise, thanks for the feedback!
- tsukaisute 9y agoIf I swipe long enough vertically, the card does seem to go away, so I figured it's a "come back to this later" feature. Didn't realize could do up/left/right to mark status, that's handy!
- neves 9y agoWhy it is better than other options, like Anki?
- jmcannon 9y agoPasting my response from below: Two things, I think. First, I was a long time power user of Anki and don't mean to disparage it, but I think CleverDeck has a much better user experience and design. Second, we've spent a tremendous amount of time putting together high quality frequency lists (mostly for languages right now) that incorporate professional imagery, native-speaker audio, transliterations (where relevant), and example sentences. Usually, making or piecing together your own decks and cards is the most time-consuming part of using an SRS - and user content is often of dubious quality. In terms of the spaced repetition, though, CleverDeck and Anki actually use the same algorithm.
- misiti3780 9y agoI love spaced repetition but serious question - what can you give me that Anki doesnt. Yes, I know Anki's interface is ugly but it is open source so I can actually change things and know how the spacing algorithm works. etc.
- tsukaisute 9y agoSometimes doing one thing well is all you need. Anki is like the assembly language of flashcards apps, higher-level solutions can be very handy too. (Speaking as a multi-language learner.)
- jmcannon 9y agoYou can change most variables in CleverDeck's algorithm (the same one Anki uses), as well. If open source and super customizability are important to you, Anki is probably a better choice for you. For many people, I think having the ready-made decks and a nice interface is more important. And CleverDeck does have some features, like three-sided cards and siblings, that I personally loved in Anki.
- riott84 9y agoPersonally I don't think super cuztomizability is that important for me. I prefer to have an out of the box solution with ready-made decks but being able to create my own decks is definitely a nice plus. My favorite aspects going through the app (learning Turkish) is the beautiful and intuitive design. Spaced repetition might sound a bit daunting, but completely got it once I started using the app. Well done, this is definitely something I will use daily and that will improve my learning.
- sprt 9y agoQuizlet seems to be doing the same thing and already has a somewhat large community behind it.
- jmcannon 9y agoI mean, yeah, Quizlet is massive. I'll never compete with their user-content library and community. They've never had a particular focus on spaced repetition, so I don't really see them as a big competitor.
- zaphoyd 9y agoAny plans to support iPads?
- jmcannon 9y agoNot right now - I quite like using it as a universal app on my iPad. To be honest, I'm not sure how I could significantly improve it with all the extra space.
- epmaybe 9y agoIncorporate a browser, perhaps? I am a student, so when I use Anki for classes I generally have to look up that idea to get the concept down. Would be pretty cool if you could have that integrated.
- zaphoyd 9y agoThanks for confirming no plans. I've lost track of the number who have promised it for years and never delivered. This looks like a nice app for iPhones, but its not useful for serious iPad work. In case you revisit this decision in the future, using the extra space isn't the issue. The "improvements" I'd be looking for on iPads would be much more mundane: support for the basic stuff like using the iPad keyboard, supporting split screen and landscape orientation, and text quality that doesn't look like it's from pre-retina days.
- jmcannon 9y agoHey thanks! That's really helpful. Noted!
- xspade 9y agoGreat work, I've been searching for something like this for a while, and never really liked the UX for Anki. I love the UX, very clean and easy to use. Tutorial / intro was the perfect length, gave me a quick run down on how to use it without taking too much time. I almost skipped over this because I didn't know what "spaced repetition system" was. My only suggestion is to market it around what benefit the user will get out of it, and not SRS / or the algorithm behind it.
- jmcannon 9y agoYeah, yours is the second comment along these lines and I think you're right. My thinking was that I wanted to differentiate it from the very gamey branding of apps like Memrise and Duolingo. "Spaced repetition system" sounds more serious, more academic - and I do want people to get the impression that CleverDeck takes the spaced repetition implementation as seriously as Anki. I think I can probably still do that while being more clear - thanks for the feedback.
- pavedwalden 9y agoFWIW, I was drawn in by the term Spaced Repetition because I like Anki in theory but hate the UI
- dotancohen 9y agoAs a very heavy Anki user, I would love to know what you don't like about the UI. I use Anki mostly as Ankidroid on a Note 3, but I add all my material on the Desktop (CentOS).
- jshevek 9y agoThe problem in recent years was the project leadership. I'm not sure if that has improved more recently.
- eridius 9y agoThis looks pretty good, but I really wish you had support for Korean.
- jmcannon 9y agoMe, too :( It's next on the agenda.
- jieun 9y agoYou might try www.koreanlevelup.com - it's not flashcards, but is another lang. learning resource. There are a couple free lessons available.
- focuser 9y agoI wonder if there's a way to provide custom content? Is there an API or something?
- jmcannon 9y agoYou can make your own decks and cards, and import decks from Quizlet or csv. I'm currently working on an accompanying web app that will allow importing of lists from more services and allow for faster bulk content creation.
- bjcy 9y agoWhen importing from csv, can you import to a deck multiple times and have it just update? Or do you have to create a new deck each time? Also, can decks be shared? Love the design and it's a welcome change of pace coming from other SRS apps.
- jmcannon 9y agoThank you! Right now, the import is pretty rudimentary. It just parses and creates a new deck. I've been working on - and now will redouble my efforts based on the feedback here - a web app that will make creation and import much easier and flexible.
- laixer 9y agoLooks pretty good (coming from a Anki user). One piece of feedback: The toolbar UX in the deck is confusing as it's inconsistent with every other iOS app. The 'back' button should be on the left and the 'options' button needs to be on the right.
- jmcannon 9y agoYeah, my mental model for the app has been that the main list of decks "lives" in the center, the settings live on the right, and the actual studying happens on the left (you'll see that it also slides in from the left - mirroring the exit animation). You're not the first to mention this, though. I should probably change it.
- sbee3 9y agoAre decks created by user stored local or remote? Thanks!
- jmcannon 9y agoCompletely local unless you make an account and turn on sync. In that case, they'll be stored remotely for the purpose of syncing between devices.
- foota 9y agoI'm on an Android phone in an airport, so no chance to check it out, but what kind of tech stack are you using?
- jmcannon 9y agoNothing fancy - objective C with core data. The backend is Django + AWS.
- sbee3 9y agoGreat App! Could you provide APIs for people to create Deck easier and quicker? Thanks!
- jmcannon 9y agoThank you! I probably don't have the bandwidth to support a full-blown API, but making a web app that makes bulk creation faster is a priority.
- codefined 9y agoBandwidth shouldn't be an issue here, although this is a side project (so I realise money is limited), from experience you can send and receive roughly 200-400 images per second for every $5/month you spend. I don't know your precise usage count, but I would be surprised if you were to get that many images downloaded every second.
- jmcannon 9y agoSorry, I meant bandwidth metaphorically. I'm an indie dev, so I just don't have a ton of time to divide across so many things that need to get done.
- yuharakn 9y agoThe great thing for me is that there are great materials for lesser studied languages - I've used it for both Turkish and Persian, which ive really struggled to find.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- mdevere 9y agoHi. I actually had it in mind to create something like this myself -- a mobile-first, nicer-designed version of Anki. But it looks like you already started on this, 2.5 years ago. Always the way.. It definitely looks nicer than Anki. It's also better for creating simple cards, something which I haven't really been able to do on the Anki app. The workflow for adding a new card is a great experience. I do think that creating my own cards is an important part of the memorisation process. I've downloaded pre-made cards before, but the stuff I use in conversation is almost always the stuff where I've created the card. Those are the words/phrases that leap to mind. One issue - my recorded audio didn't play when I reviewed the card (either on the front side or the back side). Maybe a bug? Based on just 5 minutes of experimentation, I expect that this will become my "on the go" card creator, while I'll keep Anki around for the time being because, when I create cards on my laptop, I can import Forvo pronunciations etc. Have you thought about how to monetise this?
- kendallpark 9y ago> I actually had it in mind to create something like this myself -- a mobile-first, nicer-designed version of Anki. This is also my current project. Although not mobile first. I use Anki a lot and personally find the UI to be insufferable.
- FreakyT 9y ago100% this. I solely use the unofficial AnkiDroid port because it's leagues beyond the awful desktop app. Somewhat related: a lot of its horribleness comes from the fact that the UI is written with QT, which is equally horrible for Windows and Mac, and basically okay for Linux as long as your DE is KDE.
- dotancohen 9y agoWhat do you dislike as a user about Qt apps on Windows or Mac? Granted I _am_ on KDE (CentOS) but Qt apps that I've seen on Windows or Mac seem almost native. VLC, Opera, Anki
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- eps 9y agoDo I understand correctly that paid subscription effectively removes 100 card limit? The description on the Settings page says something about "unlimited access to all content," but I can't seem to understand what this means exactly. PS. I'm probably not the only one who stuffs his wallet deeper in the pocket upon seeing an "auto-renewable subscription." I would strongly encourage you to add non-subscription way for people to give you some money. I like what you made, it's useful and I'd like to support you, but no way in hell I'm entering a recurrent $ committment with a vendor of any app that I may or may not be using few weeks from now.
- jmcannon 9y agoThanks for the advice. I don't necessarily feel like I have nailed the business model right now - I'll see how it goes. More broadly speaking, I think the jury is still out on subscriptions in productivity apps. Everyone is trying to get away with it now - and it is very attractive as an indie developer. For what its worth, I feel similarly to you. I buy year long auto-renewable subscriptions, immediately cancel them, and then resubscribe if I'm still using them next year.
- 0xf8 9y agothe immediate cancel yearly subscription approach is the move...
- lkjaero 9y agoLove the idea! Is there any way to import existing Anki decks? I don't want to start my learning from scratch.
- jmcannon 9y agoWorking on it! There's no really good way to do this on the device, so I need to build out a web app. But this is the number one most requested feature, so stay tuned :)
- fao_ 9y agoI don't have iOS, but... what benefits does this have over Anki?
- jmcannon 9y agoPasting my response from below: Two things, I think. First, I was a long time power user of Anki and don't mean to disparage it, but I think CleverDeck has a much better user experience and design. Second, we've spent a tremendous amount of time putting together high quality frequency lists (mostly for languages right now) that incorporate professional imagery, native-speaker audio, transliterations (where relevant), and example sentences. Usually, making or piecing together your own decks and cards is the most time-consuming part of using an SRS - and user content is often of dubious quality. In terms of the spaced repetition, though, CleverDeck and Anki actually use the same algorithm.
- scentedmeat 9y agoI really dislike the 'per month' monetization. I would rather be able to buy the decks that I'm interested in.
- jmcannon 9y agoWhat do you think is a fair price for one of our 3000 word language decks? In the previous iteration of the app, people showed themselves willing to pay $15. Repeat revenue makes it easier for me to make a living as an indie dev, so I wanted to give this model a try while charging what I think is a fair price. I'll keep an open mind about it and adjust if enough people want it. Appreciate the feedback!
- huhtenberg 9y ago> Repeat revenue makes it easier for me to make a living as an indie dev Of course it does! "And a pony." You have to realize that most people are exceptionally leery of subscriptions as they are open-ended long-term commercial relationships with some random entity. There gotta be rock-solid clear benefits for a subscription to be justified. There are none in your case. What you have is a product, not a service. A subscription makes no sense whatsoever. With regards to the fixed pricing - 3000 word pack is not the best option. What's more useful from the language learners perspective are packs that cover specific domain area - foods, kitchen utensils, car parts, body parts, weather elements, household tools, etc. "3000 words" = "Unclear what you are getting" "100 words, Garage" = "I may be able talk to the mechanic" If you have smaller packs, you can sell them at few bucks a piece. You can try and experiment with discounted bundles of packs. And you can also try an all-you-can-eat option with a monthly access (yes, subscription), but as one of the options, not the only one. PS. Have an option of switching off photos on cards.
- adrianN 9y agoI don't think domain specific packs are very useful for language learners. You need a rather large vocabulary just to follow a normal everyday conversation. Basic conversation and reading skill are the foundation upon which you can build. You need to consume and produce a large amount of material in your target language if you want to master it. Buying the language a few hundred words at a time won't get you to fluency as quickly as learning words by frequency until you have covered the most frequent ~80%. Only then does it make sense to focus on specific domains that are most interesting to you.
- cakedoggie 9y agoUm, so we can advertise our apps on hackernews now? Cool.
- mikestew 9y agoYes, in the fourteen days since you created your account, you might not have noticed that “Show HN” is quite common. I don’t know what the guidelines are, but perhaps they are outlined in the FAQ.
- wingerlang 9y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html > Show HN is a way to share something that you've made on Hacker News.
- tardo99 9y agoTips on using it if you already have a vocab of 2000 or 3000 words in a target language?
- jmcannon 9y agoYou can jump ahead in any deck by holding the red trash button. Since the decks are ordered by frequency, you could probably jump ahead 1000-1500 words and then just get rid of any words you already know. Otherwise, you can always just create your own cards. If you do that on top of one of CleverDeck's decks, it will autocomplete if we've already made a card for a particular word.
- xor1 9y agoThis looks really cool, I was just thinking earlier today that I need to set up some Anki decks. I just have one question: Do you gain any rights to user-made decks? Ownership or usage rights or otherwise.
- jmcannon 9y agoThank you! No - right now, CleverDeck doesn't even have any deck sharing functionality. Whatever you make is yours alone.
- bko 9y agoHow much effort is it to add a new language? My wife is trying to learn Serbian using spaced repetition and had an app to create her own flash cards with her own pictures and sounds, but it's very laborious
- seren 9y agoHave you heard about Memrise? It is site/mobile app dedicated to learn new language using SRS. Apart from official content, most of the content is contributed by bilingual users. So I don't know the quality/accuracy of them, but the result is that they have lots of courses. https://www.memrise.com/courses/english/serbian/ https://www.memrise.com/courses/english/serbian/ It is a bit hard to pick up grammar or conversationnal skills but to learn some vocabulary it is great.
- bko 9y agoI haven't heard of it but will definitely check it out. Thanks for the tip!