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I'm unsure if there's racism at play here. The business model of Infosys is based on outsourcing to India, with the US employees mostly acting as go-betweens.

I'm unsure if there's racism at play here. The business model of Infosys is based on outsourcing to India, with the US employees mostly acting as go-betweens. Likewise, Huawei's US workforce is overwhelmingly Chinese, but that's probably not a result of racism. Samsung's US R&D is almost fully Korean at the top - not because of racism In India, as a counter example, Philips, the Dutch company, has most of the upper brass as Dutch. Again, not because of racism, but because of the go-between nature of the job

wapz 9y ago
I really don't like how racism comes up so often in these situations when I think the closer term is probably familiarity or customs. A lot of bosses like to work with people that have a similar mindset and work ethic that they do. It makes sense that if you've been born and raised in country X and worked there for 15 years and become a boss you will probably prefer people with work ethics similar to your own. In Japan, as a foreigner working for a Japanese company, I can see how Japanese would much prefer to hire a Japanese over me (they don't outwardly complain about long, unpaid overtime, they do mundane tasks that aren't productive, they don't talk back when erroneously attacked). And I can see an American boss much preferring an American who's more likely to bring up points that they think are wrong. I apologize for the stereotyping but meant it as an example.
- fennecfoxen 9y ago
  > I really don't like how racism comes up so often in these situations when I think the closer term is probably familiarity or customs As a rule, 90% of what people call "racism" in the US today is closer to xenophobia. Likewise, 75% of what they call "racist police" is fundamentally a failure of the justice system as a system to restrain, discipline, or be responsible for its own career employees (police, prosecutors, and even judges), let alone properly incentivise them.
  - golemotron 9y ago
    Xenophobia is a negative spin on an evolved response that is very basic to human nature: homophily [1]. You see it in all human societies. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophily https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophily
    - BoiledCabbage 9y ago
      > Xenophobia is a negative spin on an evolved response that is very basic to human nature: homophily As is murder. The fact we may have evolved with something doest justify it.
- rayiner 9y ago
  Your definition of "familiarity" is what Americans would call racism. Obviously people are more familiar/prefer to work with other people like themselves. In America, you don't get to act on those preferences to the extent those preferences fall along race/gender/national origin lines. Socially, it's merely discouraged, but in the workplace it's illegal.
trhway 9y ago
or the same reason why hipster startup in SF hires hipsters - culture fit.
booleandilemma 9y ago
Isn't that something of a double standard though? You say "Huawei's US workforce is overwhelmingly Chinese" and shrug it off, and then I read an article about Facebook that says they don't hire enough black people. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jun/25/facebook-diversity-report-black-white-women-employees https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jun/25/facebook-...
- gkya 9y ago
  > article about Facebook that says they don't hire enough black people. This is such a silly thing. I mean this is what is racist actually, hiring people based on their race, having to balance races and genders, and race and gender and whatnot being variables in the job market.
  - dvfjsdhgfv 9y ago
    You're not American, are you? I understand your point - positive differentiation is differentiation after all. Nevertheless, you can't deny that white people have advantage over blacks due to historical reasons. That's a simple fact. What we as a society are truing to do is to undo the harm, in a way - to make chances equal, because we feel it's the right thing to do.
    - DarkKomunalec 9y ago
      > you can't deny that white people have advantage over blacks due to historical reasons *White people in white-majority countries. Most countries aren't as opposed to favouring their own as Western countries are, so this advantage is geographically very limited.
      - metalon 9y ago
        I think it's pretty clear they were talking about the U.S., which IS a white majority country where white people DO have an advantage
deleted 9y ago
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golemotron 9y ago
People like people who are like them [1]. The word for this is homophily. It's very basic to psychology and it is easy to see how we evolved this way. It's a survival mechanism: 'This like me, this good.' Advertisers use this aspect of human nature extensively. We unconsciously seek the familiar and feel more comfortable with it. It doesn't matter whether it is shared interests in knitting, hobbies, common values or background, or even something superficial like skin or hair color. We can fight against homophily, but I don't think we can ever get rid of it. It's part of our apparatus. What we are doing now in the West is unprecedented in humanity. The world wars of the 20th century were so horrific that we decided that the only way forward is to stamp out homophily, most recently by labeling a lot of it as racism or xenophobia. I want to be optimistic that we will end up in a good place but I have my doubts. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophily https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophily
pron 9y ago
> that's probably not a result of racism Not directly related to the article, but racism is not the same thing as xenophobia and it is not a cause but rather the effect of different races having different amounts of power. If a practice causes or strengthens some power disparity between races then it is racist, regardless of motivation (same goes for sexism vs. misogyny).
- golemotron 9y ago
  It's nice to speak authoritatively but that's only one definition of racism and it isn't even common in dictionaries [1][2]. It might be better to have a different word for that concept, or at the very least to acknowledge that there are many definitions of the word. [1] - https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/racism https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/racism [2] - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism
  - pron 9y ago
    There are many definitions, but when experts (and journalists etc.) speak about racism (rather than laymen), this is the definition they mean. Instead of arguing over which definition is more correct or more common, it's best to understand what definition the speaker has in mind.
    - golemotron 9y ago
      I'm glad you understand now.
- someguydave 9y ago
  I assume you read the recent slatestarcodex on this: https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/06/21/against-murderism/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/06/21/against-murderism/ "So Definition By Consequences implies that racism can never be pointed to as a cause of anything, that racist policies can often be good, that nobody “is a racist” or “isn’t a racist”, and that sometimes the KKK trying to terrorize black people is less racist than them not trying to do this."
deleted 9y ago
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wapz 9y ago

I really don't like how racism comes up so often in these situations when I think the closer term is probably familiarity or customs. A lot of bosses like to work with people that have a similar mindset and work ethic that they do. It makes sense that if you've been born and raised in country X and worked there for 15 years and become a boss you will probably prefer people with work ethics similar to your own. In Japan, as a foreigner working for a Japanese company, I can see how Japanese would much prefer to hire a Japanese over me (they don't outwardly complain about long, unpaid overtime, they do mundane tasks that aren't productive, they don't talk back when erroneously attacked). And I can see an American boss much preferring an American who's more likely to bring up points that they think are wrong. I apologize for the stereotyping but meant it as an example.

fennecfoxen 9y ago
> I really don't like how racism comes up so often in these situations when I think the closer term is probably familiarity or customs As a rule, 90% of what people call "racism" in the US today is closer to xenophobia. Likewise, 75% of what they call "racist police" is fundamentally a failure of the justice system as a system to restrain, discipline, or be responsible for its own career employees (police, prosecutors, and even judges), let alone properly incentivise them.
- golemotron 9y ago
  Xenophobia is a negative spin on an evolved response that is very basic to human nature: homophily [1]. You see it in all human societies. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophily https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophily
  - BoiledCabbage 9y ago
    > Xenophobia is a negative spin on an evolved response that is very basic to human nature: homophily As is murder. The fact we may have evolved with something doest justify it.
rayiner 9y ago
Your definition of "familiarity" is what Americans would call racism. Obviously people are more familiar/prefer to work with other people like themselves. In America, you don't get to act on those preferences to the extent those preferences fall along race/gender/national origin lines. Socially, it's merely discouraged, but in the workplace it's illegal.

trhway 9y ago

or the same reason why hipster startup in SF hires hipsters - culture fit.

booleandilemma 9y ago

Isn't that something of a double standard though? You say "Huawei's US workforce is overwhelmingly Chinese" and shrug it off, and then I read an article about Facebook that says they don't hire enough black people. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jun/25/facebook-diversity-report-black-white-women-employees https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jun/25/facebook-...

gkya 9y ago
> article about Facebook that says they don't hire enough black people. This is such a silly thing. I mean this is what is racist actually, hiring people based on their race, having to balance races and genders, and race and gender and whatnot being variables in the job market.
- dvfjsdhgfv 9y ago
  You're not American, are you? I understand your point - positive differentiation is differentiation after all. Nevertheless, you can't deny that white people have advantage over blacks due to historical reasons. That's a simple fact. What we as a society are truing to do is to undo the harm, in a way - to make chances equal, because we feel it's the right thing to do.
  - DarkKomunalec 9y ago
    > you can't deny that white people have advantage over blacks due to historical reasons *White people in white-majority countries. Most countries aren't as opposed to favouring their own as Western countries are, so this advantage is geographically very limited.
    - metalon 9y ago
      I think it's pretty clear they were talking about the U.S., which IS a white majority country where white people DO have an advantage

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

golemotron 9y ago

People like people who are like them [1]. The word for this is homophily. It's very basic to psychology and it is easy to see how we evolved this way. It's a survival mechanism: 'This like me, this good.' Advertisers use this aspect of human nature extensively. We unconsciously seek the familiar and feel more comfortable with it. It doesn't matter whether it is shared interests in knitting, hobbies, common values or background, or even something superficial like skin or hair color. We can fight against homophily, but I don't think we can ever get rid of it. It's part of our apparatus. What we are doing now in the West is unprecedented in humanity. The world wars of the 20th century were so horrific that we decided that the only way forward is to stamp out homophily, most recently by labeling a lot of it as racism or xenophobia. I want to be optimistic that we will end up in a good place but I have my doubts. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophily https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophily

pron 9y ago

> that's probably not a result of racism Not directly related to the article, but racism is not the same thing as xenophobia and it is not a cause but rather the effect of different races having different amounts of power. If a practice causes or strengthens some power disparity between races then it is racist, regardless of motivation (same goes for sexism vs. misogyny).

golemotron 9y ago
It's nice to speak authoritatively but that's only one definition of racism and it isn't even common in dictionaries [1][2]. It might be better to have a different word for that concept, or at the very least to acknowledge that there are many definitions of the word. [1] - https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/racism https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/racism [2] - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism
- pron 9y ago
  There are many definitions, but when experts (and journalists etc.) speak about racism (rather than laymen), this is the definition they mean. Instead of arguing over which definition is more correct or more common, it's best to understand what definition the speaker has in mind.
  - golemotron 9y ago
    I'm glad you understand now.
someguydave 9y ago
I assume you read the recent slatestarcodex on this: https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/06/21/against-murderism/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/06/21/against-murderism/ "So Definition By Consequences implies that racism can never be pointed to as a cause of anything, that racist policies can often be good, that nobody “is a racist” or “isn’t a racist”, and that sometimes the KKK trying to terrorize black people is less racist than them not trying to do this."

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]