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“He who can destroy a thing has the real control of it.” – Dune, Frank Herbert
by kornish 9y ago
“He who can destroy a thing has the real control of it.”
– Dune, Frank Herbert
- anth1988 9y agoI really need to finish that book. sigh.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- beambot 9y agoIronically applies to both Kalanick & the investors!
- Radim 9y ago"The machines themselves condition the users to employ each other the way they employ machines." - God Emperor of Dune, Frank Herbert (a prescient book on social feedback loops, my favourite in the series)
- thinkfurther 9y ago> Our main way of relating ourselves to others is like things relate themselves to things on the market. We want to exchange our own personality, or as one says sometimes, our "personality package", for something. -- Erich Fromm ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu-7UDT0Xe4&t=1m34s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu-7UDT0Xe4&t=1m34s ) > The danger of computers becoming like humans is not as great as the danger of humans becoming like computers. -- Konrad Zuse And when Picasso said that computers are useless because they only provide answers, was he just being witty, or pointing at an abyss, knowingly or not?
- imranq 9y agoAny of us could inflict real damage or destruction on our surroundings especially while driving but that doesn't mean we have "control" over them.
- tskaiser 9y agoInsofar none of us would want to suffer the consequences of such acts we cannot truly say we are capable of carrying them out. It is what we mean when we claim someone is "incapable of <x>" such as murder. It does not mean they do not physically possess the means, but rather that they lack the psychological impetus to do so.
- thinkfurther 9y agoSo a person who is psychologically capable of murdering has more control over me than one who isn't, and both are less in control than, say, a tsunami? Maybe, but neither can get at things I give freely to a friend? Control is the incapability of either friendship or self-defense, in my opinion, so yes, in a way always it requires numbing or killing something or someone. Leashes transform those on both ends.
- tskaiser 9y agoThe original quote does fall apart, as most quotes do, upon closer inspection. Say you can kill a man, but irregardless of the threat to their life said man would refuse any and all of your orders, who can then be said to have 'control'? In the end control means the ability to influence outcomes. There are many metrics, and for some choice of metric the capability of destruction is control.
- avar 9y agoThe original Dune quote makes perfect sense in context. Paul was talking about destroying the spice supply by making Arrakis barren of sandworms. "Control" in this context is control of the spice, specifically being able to control there being none at all.
- jerf 9y ago"So a person who is psychologically capable of murdering has more control over me than one who isn't," More relevantly, a person who is both capable and willing to restrict your freedoms, potentially even unto death, has more control over you than a person who doesn't. This isn't abstract theory. This is a description of "government". Would you pay any attention to the people claiming to be "the government" if they didn't have credible mechanisms for backing up their demands? It is preferable that government not be solely founded on this power relation. It shouldn't be considered "sufficient" for good government. But it is certainly "necessary".