9 ms·

I am so unhappy about this change. I tip well everywhere it is expected, restaurants, bars, cabs etc. I hate the system but it is factored in to the price and t

I am so unhappy about this change. I tip well everywhere it is expected, restaurants, bars, cabs etc. I hate the system but it is factored in to the price and there's nothing I can do about it. What I loved about Uber when it started was there was no ambiguity. Prices were predictable, as were wait times. Zero cognitive overhead. No guilt or internal debate. Over time every little thing I loved about Uber was taken away in the name of lowering prices. Agitation about driver wait times. Wildly fluctuating cost of rides. Wildly varying rider wait times. Drivers canceling undesirable trips. And now tips. It's just one little thing, but it's the death of what I valued in their service. What if instead of all these nitpicking changes, they kept the fares a bit higher and simply paid the drivers a bit more? I guess in their calculus that was unsustainable. So basically the people who were penny pinching trying to get the cheapest rides drove lower prices so now I will tip (probably too well) and underwrite those same people who will likely also not tip because they will decide it is optional.

z6 9y ago
I don't think raising the fares would have any impact in the drivers' desire to have a tip option. Tips are free money and widely acceptable in the US, so who wouldn't want that. Since Uber lost a recent lawsuit wrt tipping, I've been on multiple rides where the driver has a tip jar. So I much prefer the in-app tipping compared to having a physical tip jar in the car.
- creepydata 9y ago
  >Tips are free money and widely acceptable in the US, so who wouldn't want that. Tips are not "free money," they drive down salary thus they move compensation from the employer's responsibility to the responsibility of the customer. The more tips you get the less you get paid.
zamalek 9y ago
I'm not sure how to feel about it too. While I will be tipping (when actually using Uber), after I initially wondered why Uber didn't allow tips I concluded that the drivers could become unfriendly about it. They are not yet aggressive about ratings here (South Africa), but I've heard horror stories from the US. I agree completely. Not only woulld this all go away if they are paid better, but they would likely be more motivated and friendly.
- kelnos 9y ago
  My rule of thumb with Lyft is that if the driver mentions giving them a good rating or tip, they get no tip. Directly asking for a tip (and thereby creating a guilt-ridden obligation) violates the implied social contract around tipping. (Think about other services where a tip is expected: it is rare for anyone to verbally mention a tip.) When I used to use Uber, my policy was that if a driver asked for a tip, I would drop their rating by 1 or 2 stars, depending on how aggressive they were. This has only happened once. (A handful of other drivers had a tasteful tip jar; I found it annoying but chose not to penalize.)
  - shadow_banned 9y ago
    Lol what are you a robot?
  - creepydata 9y ago
    Tip jars are never tasteful, putting a tip jar out is equivalent to panhandling, IMO. A business is a place for business transactions, not begging.
    - yebyen 9y ago
      I can only assume that you have never worked in any industry in a customer service capacity. Tipping is a totally normal thing, that you are free to engage in or abstain from. If you are especially pleased with a service on a particular occasion, then you should tip. If you are the type of person who is never pleased with anything, then you should certainly feel no obligation to tip, ever. This whole exchange reminds me of an episode of Black Mirror. * (edit: Then again, after reading some more of the impressions on this page, I think I may be privileged that I am in a relatively small midwestern city where Uber and Lyft both offer service. I have never been asked to tip, by any of the drivers I've used on either service. It sounds like that is far from the norm, at least in areas where HN users are.)
      - creepydata 9y ago
        >I can only assume that you have never worked in any industry in a customer service capacity Lol wut? Yes, I certainly have. I've worked no less than 4 customer service jobs. >Tipping is a totally normal thing, that you are free to engage in or abstain from. Only in the strictly legal sense, not the social sense. >If you are especially pleased with a service on a particular occasion, then you should tip. First off, tips for many service employees in the US are not "for exception service," they are "expected for any service." I'd prefer to live in a society where employees give a pleasing service without expecting a bribe. I would prefer to live in a society where some customers are not snubbed because of the assumption they won't leave a tip, or will leave a small one. I also don't care to turn every single interaction I have throughout the day into a business transaction. Not only that but you start with "you are free to engage in or abstain from [tips]" then say "you should tip." Which was is it? Completely optional or expected? You claim it's both. >If you are the type of person who is never pleased with anything Wow, way to project. I am pleased by pretty much any service as long as the job gets done semi-competently . I don't need anything "extra," or small talk, or even smiles. I have a massive amount of empathy for service employees who aren't property trained and if I have a bad experience I usually blame poor management, not the customer service employee personally. If the place is crowded I understand I'm going to have to wait, through nobody's fault, crowds can't always be anticipated. Disliking tips is hardly the same thing as being a miserable person who is always unhappy. That's quite the stretch. >you should certainly feel no obligation to tip, ever. I am not such an asshole to believe that someone who doesn't smile or is working short staffed deserves to have their pay docked. That's cruel. The thing about introducing tips is they become "mandatory," because employees and management come to expect tips. This brings down salaries then everyone is guilted into leaving tips. It's no secret that Uber is ruthlessly cutting fairs and now they are basically saying "we expect customers to make up the difference." Anyways, my comments were not about tipping in general, they were about tip jars, specially. Tip jars are begging and are no different than panhandling. It's a form of guilt tipping(1) and are always distasteful. A business is no place for employees to beg - save that for the streets. https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/advice/2016/05/01/tipping/83696272/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/advice/2016/05/01/tipp... "If you don't pay up, you're shamed for your lack of generosity, at best — or at worst, for stealing someone's salary." And, of course, "He started rattling about how far the cab ride was and how he needed more," she says. "It turned me off. I use Uber now."
praveenbeatle 9y ago
Its because of human drivers(cunts), just wait till the autnomous car revolution, I have a feeling it'd be bliss.
homulilly 9y ago
This was basically the only reason I ever used Uber instead of Lyft. Now I'll just use Lyft 100% of the time since drivers seem to like them better anyway.
- nailer 9y ago
  Does Lyft have tipping? It doesn't operate where I am.
  - TheArcane 9y ago
    It does.
- johnfn 9y ago
  So because Uber added tipping, you'll use Lyft, which has tipping?
  - systoll 9y ago
    ...yeah. Tipping < not tipping Uber + not tipping > Lyft + tipping Uber + tipping < Lyft + tipping
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - AdamJacobMuller 9y ago
      Agree as well. Do you know how Lyft shows tips to the drivers? Aggregated at the end of the pay period or?
  - homulilly 9y ago
    Yes. Drivers tend to prefer Lyft but I'd still sometimes use Uber since I didn't have to worry about tips. Now that Uber no longer differentiates itself in that way I may as well just use lyft all the time.
samstave 9y ago
I'm so surprised that so many people don't know that when Uber was first created, you had a tip selector in your profile that you could add a tip automatically to each ride.
huhtenberg 9y ago
> What if instead of all these nitpicking changes, they kept the fares a bit higher and simply paid the drivers a bit more? Drivers would still yearn and push for tips. It's an established industry practice and drivers assume that most people will tip if asked, so by not asking they are leaving money on the table.
- wapz 9y ago
  It's really unfortunate how that is the case in the US particularly. I moved to Japan and was shocked at how the service is in Japan compared to the states (particularly restaurants). All the employees work hard to please customers because that's what they're paid to do (and often less than the SF bay area where I'm from). Going back to the US I can feel waiters/waitresses trying to please me to get higher tips or just essentially pretend I don't exist if they think I won't tip well. This arose once when I was playing poker in a casino and only one of the 3 people who ordered drinks tipped. The lady never came back (45 minutes) after that and when the player asked in an agitated voice he was kicked out of the game.
  - yladiz 9y ago
    The reason that Japan and the US act differently is not due to tips but due to culture. In the US if there's some kind of issue that person will likely complain but unless it's egregious they probably will return to wherever it happened. In Japan, however, generally one mistake costs the business that customer forever without the customer complaining directly about it. Additionally, remember that it's not the employee's fault that there are tips, it's the employers and the US society that expects it (consider restaurants that removed tips often bring them back) and the employee is just working within that construct.
cletus 9y ago
+1 And Uber is... gone (from my phone). I hate tipping with a passion and despite Uber's questionable practices I was prepared to use it instead of Lyft based solely on tipping. So now I, as a user, have to concern myself with issues like: is the driver actually getting the tip? Or is Uber taking a cut? Does this mean Uber is paying the driver less because they can now get a tip? I don't want to have to concern myself with issues like this. I really don't.
- verelo 9y ago
  Yeah this is stupid. I'm not sure what I'm tipppng for anyway,"good driving" a "clean car"? These are the comments I can see being assigned to tips. Can I just, please, have a fixed priced service without frills to get me to and from places. It's not an experience I care enough about to optimize the time with my service operator, by bribing them to treat me better than others. I'm glad it's summer, less taxis and more biking!
  - lazerpants 9y ago
    Assuming you're in NYC (based on the last sentence), you should check out Juno. They take a smaller percentage of revenue for the trip, and that makes me feel far better about not tipping.
    - verelo 9y ago
      Toronto :(
- cylinder 9y ago
  Well said. I hate all tipping. Hallmark of a stupid society. No surprise, DeBlasio pushed to require it in NYC. That guy is a complete and utter moron.
gambiting 9y ago
I'm just not going to use this option in the app. There seems to be absolutely zero downside to not doing it, and multiple downsides to using it.
- criddell 9y ago
  Do you mean you won't tip in the app, or you just won't tip?
  - gambiting 9y ago
    I've never tipped Uber drivers(it would be extremely weird giving the uber driver cash if the payment for the fare is done through my account, do other people tip their uber drivers?), and will continue not doing so - will just ignore the option in the app. I do tip in other industries and situations.
    - criddell 9y ago
      I try to use Lyft, but have used Uber before and yes, I tipped with cash.
- nonamechicken 9y ago
  If you don't tip, drivers may give a lower rating. I have seen such comments in /r/uberdrivers. I recently paid a good amount as tip in the hope of increasing my rating after I found my score was 4.7. Other than not tipping, I haven't done anything to be a bad passenger as far as I know.
yebyen 9y ago
You know what, I am in a college town that is otherwise way too small for Uber and Lyft, but we have service because of the college. I was on a two hour train ride home after 12 hours of air travel, to save a couple of bucks. I arrived at the train station after the three hour ride (one hour late) at about 1:00am, and all of the Uber drivers had gone to sleep at least an hour ago! I was so glad to see one Lyft driver still signed on, when the conductor came and told me we'd be at the station in 20 minutes. When he got me home with no hassle, I felt compelled to leave a $10 tip. I've never been a heavy user of either service, but I believe the Lyft app has had this feature for a long time. Because this guy personally saved me from a $20 cab ride, at least, when all of the other cars had left the map, it was easily worth $10 extra. Now writing about it I think I should have tipped $20! I shudder to think what I would have done if I had to depend on Uber instead, where the price only goes up when there is a surge in demand. (Probably would have taken a cab, I'm sure it's not as bleak as I'm making it out to be, but the fact is Uber drivers all went to sleep at 12:00, for some reason, and Lyft stayed up. I wonder if it was because of tips? To Insure Prompt Service! I don't know if this is a major difference for the drivers, but when I've asked people who drive for both services off-hand which one they prefer, I've never heard any of them answer Uber. It's always Lyft.)
- d0lph 9y ago
  That's definitely the case where tipping is a good thing. If tipping is not expected then it won't be that bad.
  - yebyen 9y ago
    I hear your "if tipping is not expected then" but I don't see a plan of action to make this the case. Wages may be artificially depressed by the construct of tipping, but shutting off the prospect of tips, does not magically increase wages. This reminds me of the time that Donald Trump told everyone he hasn't heard any criticism of the DAPL, and meanwhile there is a massive #TurnOnYourPhone campaign aimed at him on Twitter, because the White House comment line had been closed since he took office. Shutting down the conduit does not magically erase the demand! The demand is still there, it's just not visible anymore.
gehwartzen 9y ago
I completely agree, this is a terrible move on uber's part. That being said, if tipping is going to be part of the new model going forward I would at least want it to be anonymous. That is have the driver receive all of his/her tips in aggregate at the end of the pay cycle without knowing which passengers it came from. The driver can still determine if his overall service was, on average, financially valued by the drivers above the fare price but passengers don't have the same pressure to tip (blacklisted by drivers, bad reviews, etc) if they don't want to.
laughfactory 9y ago
Yep. I hate this compelled tipping we've got everywhere these days. How long until we're asked if we want to tip at the grocery store, or the gas pump? Even if the cashier (at, say, retail location) says "feel free not to tip" that does little to make me feel less shamed. Tipping should be for exemplary service, not routine service. That's why adding it to Uber is stupid: I expect fast pickup, nice drivers, and safe delivery to my destination for the price I pay. If I don't tip will it be an extra long drive? An extra long wait? Will I lose a limb along the way? It'd be like being asked to tip at a fast food restaurant: I don't expect to have to tip to get my food fast, that's just part of the value proposition. Uber just keeps driving nails in their own coffin!

z6 9y ago

I don't think raising the fares would have any impact in the drivers' desire to have a tip option. Tips are free money and widely acceptable in the US, so who wouldn't want that. Since Uber lost a recent lawsuit wrt tipping, I've been on multiple rides where the driver has a tip jar. So I much prefer the in-app tipping compared to having a physical tip jar in the car.

creepydata 9y ago
>Tips are free money and widely acceptable in the US, so who wouldn't want that. Tips are not "free money," they drive down salary thus they move compensation from the employer's responsibility to the responsibility of the customer. The more tips you get the less you get paid.

zamalek 9y ago

I'm not sure how to feel about it too. While I will be tipping (when actually using Uber), after I initially wondered why Uber didn't allow tips I concluded that the drivers could become unfriendly about it. They are not yet aggressive about ratings here (South Africa), but I've heard horror stories from the US. I agree completely. Not only woulld this all go away if they are paid better, but they would likely be more motivated and friendly.

kelnos 9y ago
My rule of thumb with Lyft is that if the driver mentions giving them a good rating or tip, they get no tip. Directly asking for a tip (and thereby creating a guilt-ridden obligation) violates the implied social contract around tipping. (Think about other services where a tip is expected: it is rare for anyone to verbally mention a tip.) When I used to use Uber, my policy was that if a driver asked for a tip, I would drop their rating by 1 or 2 stars, depending on how aggressive they were. This has only happened once. (A handful of other drivers had a tasteful tip jar; I found it annoying but chose not to penalize.)
- shadow_banned 9y ago
  Lol what are you a robot?
- creepydata 9y ago
  Tip jars are never tasteful, putting a tip jar out is equivalent to panhandling, IMO. A business is a place for business transactions, not begging.
  - yebyen 9y ago
    I can only assume that you have never worked in any industry in a customer service capacity. Tipping is a totally normal thing, that you are free to engage in or abstain from. If you are especially pleased with a service on a particular occasion, then you should tip. If you are the type of person who is never pleased with anything, then you should certainly feel no obligation to tip, ever. This whole exchange reminds me of an episode of Black Mirror. * (edit: Then again, after reading some more of the impressions on this page, I think I may be privileged that I am in a relatively small midwestern city where Uber and Lyft both offer service. I have never been asked to tip, by any of the drivers I've used on either service. It sounds like that is far from the norm, at least in areas where HN users are.)
    - creepydata 9y ago
      >I can only assume that you have never worked in any industry in a customer service capacity Lol wut? Yes, I certainly have. I've worked no less than 4 customer service jobs. >Tipping is a totally normal thing, that you are free to engage in or abstain from. Only in the strictly legal sense, not the social sense. >If you are especially pleased with a service on a particular occasion, then you should tip. First off, tips for many service employees in the US are not "for exception service," they are "expected for any service." I'd prefer to live in a society where employees give a pleasing service without expecting a bribe. I would prefer to live in a society where some customers are not snubbed because of the assumption they won't leave a tip, or will leave a small one. I also don't care to turn every single interaction I have throughout the day into a business transaction. Not only that but you start with "you are free to engage in or abstain from [tips]" then say "you should tip." Which was is it? Completely optional or expected? You claim it's both. >If you are the type of person who is never pleased with anything Wow, way to project. I am pleased by pretty much any service as long as the job gets done semi-competently . I don't need anything "extra," or small talk, or even smiles. I have a massive amount of empathy for service employees who aren't property trained and if I have a bad experience I usually blame poor management, not the customer service employee personally. If the place is crowded I understand I'm going to have to wait, through nobody's fault, crowds can't always be anticipated. Disliking tips is hardly the same thing as being a miserable person who is always unhappy. That's quite the stretch. >you should certainly feel no obligation to tip, ever. I am not such an asshole to believe that someone who doesn't smile or is working short staffed deserves to have their pay docked. That's cruel. The thing about introducing tips is they become "mandatory," because employees and management come to expect tips. This brings down salaries then everyone is guilted into leaving tips. It's no secret that Uber is ruthlessly cutting fairs and now they are basically saying "we expect customers to make up the difference." Anyways, my comments were not about tipping in general, they were about tip jars, specially. Tip jars are begging and are no different than panhandling. It's a form of guilt tipping(1) and are always distasteful. A business is no place for employees to beg - save that for the streets. https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/advice/2016/05/01/tipping/83696272/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/advice/2016/05/01/tipp... "If you don't pay up, you're shamed for your lack of generosity, at best — or at worst, for stealing someone's salary." And, of course, "He started rattling about how far the cab ride was and how he needed more," she says. "It turned me off. I use Uber now."

praveenbeatle 9y ago

Its because of human drivers(cunts), just wait till the autnomous car revolution, I have a feeling it'd be bliss.

homulilly 9y ago

This was basically the only reason I ever used Uber instead of Lyft. Now I'll just use Lyft 100% of the time since drivers seem to like them better anyway.

nailer 9y ago
Does Lyft have tipping? It doesn't operate where I am.
- TheArcane 9y ago
  It does.
johnfn 9y ago
So because Uber added tipping, you'll use Lyft, which has tipping?
- systoll 9y ago
  ...yeah. Tipping < not tipping Uber + not tipping > Lyft + tipping Uber + tipping < Lyft + tipping
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - AdamJacobMuller 9y ago
    Agree as well. Do you know how Lyft shows tips to the drivers? Aggregated at the end of the pay period or?
- homulilly 9y ago
  Yes. Drivers tend to prefer Lyft but I'd still sometimes use Uber since I didn't have to worry about tips. Now that Uber no longer differentiates itself in that way I may as well just use lyft all the time.

samstave 9y ago

I'm so surprised that so many people don't know that when Uber was first created, you had a tip selector in your profile that you could add a tip automatically to each ride.

huhtenberg 9y ago

> What if instead of all these nitpicking changes, they kept the fares a bit higher and simply paid the drivers a bit more? Drivers would still yearn and push for tips. It's an established industry practice and drivers assume that most people will tip if asked, so by not asking they are leaving money on the table.

wapz 9y ago
It's really unfortunate how that is the case in the US particularly. I moved to Japan and was shocked at how the service is in Japan compared to the states (particularly restaurants). All the employees work hard to please customers because that's what they're paid to do (and often less than the SF bay area where I'm from). Going back to the US I can feel waiters/waitresses trying to please me to get higher tips or just essentially pretend I don't exist if they think I won't tip well. This arose once when I was playing poker in a casino and only one of the 3 people who ordered drinks tipped. The lady never came back (45 minutes) after that and when the player asked in an agitated voice he was kicked out of the game.
- yladiz 9y ago
  The reason that Japan and the US act differently is not due to tips but due to culture. In the US if there's some kind of issue that person will likely complain but unless it's egregious they probably will return to wherever it happened. In Japan, however, generally one mistake costs the business that customer forever without the customer complaining directly about it. Additionally, remember that it's not the employee's fault that there are tips, it's the employers and the US society that expects it (consider restaurants that removed tips often bring them back) and the employee is just working within that construct.

cletus 9y ago

+1 And Uber is... gone (from my phone). I hate tipping with a passion and despite Uber's questionable practices I was prepared to use it instead of Lyft based solely on tipping. So now I, as a user, have to concern myself with issues like: is the driver actually getting the tip? Or is Uber taking a cut? Does this mean Uber is paying the driver less because they can now get a tip? I don't want to have to concern myself with issues like this. I really don't.

verelo 9y ago
Yeah this is stupid. I'm not sure what I'm tipppng for anyway,"good driving" a "clean car"? These are the comments I can see being assigned to tips. Can I just, please, have a fixed priced service without frills to get me to and from places. It's not an experience I care enough about to optimize the time with my service operator, by bribing them to treat me better than others. I'm glad it's summer, less taxis and more biking!
- lazerpants 9y ago
  Assuming you're in NYC (based on the last sentence), you should check out Juno. They take a smaller percentage of revenue for the trip, and that makes me feel far better about not tipping.
  - verelo 9y ago
    Toronto :(
cylinder 9y ago
Well said. I hate all tipping. Hallmark of a stupid society. No surprise, DeBlasio pushed to require it in NYC. That guy is a complete and utter moron.

gambiting 9y ago

I'm just not going to use this option in the app. There seems to be absolutely zero downside to not doing it, and multiple downsides to using it.

criddell 9y ago
Do you mean you won't tip in the app, or you just won't tip?
- gambiting 9y ago
  I've never tipped Uber drivers(it would be extremely weird giving the uber driver cash if the payment for the fare is done through my account, do other people tip their uber drivers?), and will continue not doing so - will just ignore the option in the app. I do tip in other industries and situations.
  - criddell 9y ago
    I try to use Lyft, but have used Uber before and yes, I tipped with cash.
nonamechicken 9y ago
If you don't tip, drivers may give a lower rating. I have seen such comments in /r/uberdrivers. I recently paid a good amount as tip in the hope of increasing my rating after I found my score was 4.7. Other than not tipping, I haven't done anything to be a bad passenger as far as I know.

yebyen 9y ago

You know what, I am in a college town that is otherwise way too small for Uber and Lyft, but we have service because of the college. I was on a two hour train ride home after 12 hours of air travel, to save a couple of bucks. I arrived at the train station after the three hour ride (one hour late) at about 1:00am, and all of the Uber drivers had gone to sleep at least an hour ago! I was so glad to see one Lyft driver still signed on, when the conductor came and told me we'd be at the station in 20 minutes. When he got me home with no hassle, I felt compelled to leave a $10 tip. I've never been a heavy user of either service, but I believe the Lyft app has had this feature for a long time. Because this guy personally saved me from a $20 cab ride, at least, when all of the other cars had left the map, it was easily worth $10 extra. Now writing about it I think I should have tipped $20! I shudder to think what I would have done if I had to depend on Uber instead, where the price only goes up when there is a surge in demand. (Probably would have taken a cab, I'm sure it's not as bleak as I'm making it out to be, but the fact is Uber drivers all went to sleep at 12:00, for some reason, and Lyft stayed up. I wonder if it was because of tips? To Insure Prompt Service! I don't know if this is a major difference for the drivers, but when I've asked people who drive for both services off-hand which one they prefer, I've never heard any of them answer Uber. It's always Lyft.)

d0lph 9y ago
That's definitely the case where tipping is a good thing. If tipping is not expected then it won't be that bad.
- yebyen 9y ago
  I hear your "if tipping is not expected then" but I don't see a plan of action to make this the case. Wages may be artificially depressed by the construct of tipping, but shutting off the prospect of tips, does not magically increase wages. This reminds me of the time that Donald Trump told everyone he hasn't heard any criticism of the DAPL, and meanwhile there is a massive #TurnOnYourPhone campaign aimed at him on Twitter, because the White House comment line had been closed since he took office. Shutting down the conduit does not magically erase the demand! The demand is still there, it's just not visible anymore.

gehwartzen 9y ago

I completely agree, this is a terrible move on uber's part. That being said, if tipping is going to be part of the new model going forward I would at least want it to be anonymous. That is have the driver receive all of his/her tips in aggregate at the end of the pay cycle without knowing which passengers it came from. The driver can still determine if his overall service was, on average, financially valued by the drivers above the fare price but passengers don't have the same pressure to tip (blacklisted by drivers, bad reviews, etc) if they don't want to.

laughfactory 9y ago

Yep. I hate this compelled tipping we've got everywhere these days. How long until we're asked if we want to tip at the grocery store, or the gas pump? Even if the cashier (at, say, retail location) says "feel free not to tip" that does little to make me feel less shamed. Tipping should be for exemplary service, not routine service. That's why adding it to Uber is stupid: I expect fast pickup, nice drivers, and safe delivery to my destination for the price I pay. If I don't tip will it be an extra long drive? An extra long wait? Will I lose a limb along the way? It'd be like being asked to tip at a fast food restaurant: I don't expect to have to tip to get my food fast, that's just part of the value proposition. Uber just keeps driving nails in their own coffin!