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It is sad that companies like Uber are being pressured into making these stupid decisions because of "social justice". For me the main benefit of using Uber (a

It is sad that companies like Uber are being pressured into making these stupid decisions because of "social justice". For me the main benefit of using Uber (as well as all other on-demand services like Doordash, Caviar, etc.) was that everything is included and I don't have to think. Companies like Uber should be focused on building a product that consumers want and nothing else. These decisions are nothing more than the company being bullied (by the media and activists) into making politically correct decisions that brings NO benefit to any parties involved, including the drivers. If anyone thinks this will eventually be beneficial for the drivers they're short-sighted. It's just turning Uber into a Taxi experience.

smt88 9y ago
Uber is building a product consumers want. That product must have a brand that consumers don't find repugnant. You seem to want a free market, but not a market that prioritizes things (e.g. tipping) that you don't care about. You can't have it both ways. The market has spoken and Uber has responded.
- cocktailpeanuts 9y ago
  "I really hope I can pay more to get from A to B", said nobody. Also I don't know where your assumption "The market has spoken" comes from.
  - pheldagryph 9y ago
    > "I really hope I can pay more to get from A to B", said nobody. Oh, that's me! Here's a few reasons I'd want to have the option to pay a driver a bit more: - I forced them to drive a stressful route - I forced them to drive waaay off the beaten path - They helped me schlep large items in/out of their vehicle - I inconvenienced them somehow to where it makes their next ride a bit less likely to tip / star (like making a mess in the car) > The market has spoken A driver and I recently discussed this change, and our conclusion was: "finally!". Tipping is the custom in the USA for exactly this kind of job. Making it inconvenient or impossible to tip inside the app is like garnishing drivers' wages. Some drivers really really do deserve to benefit more from their labor, and some riders really do owe their drivers a bit more.
    - lordCarbonFiber 9y ago
      Tipping is a repugnant practice full stop. Tweak the algorithm to charge more for high stress or off path routes and remove the onus on the customer to have to go through this pointless ritual. I'd much rather know my driver is paid a fair wage (and pay more upfront) by their fucking employer rather than have to be responsible of making up the difference.
      - pheldagryph 9y ago
        > Tipping is a repugnant practice full stop. Not everyone agrees. It's vulgar in my ideal world (Star Trek), but that is not the world in which we live (yet). > I'd much rather know my driver is paid a fair wage (and pay more upfront) by their fucking employer rather than have to be responsible of making up the difference. I agree with this. But, I also believe that Uber is exploiting its drivers, and that its app is not sufficient in these situations (yet?) to dispense with tipping altogether. So, on balance, I see Uber's return to the custom of this culture to be a benefit to Uber's employees.
  - criddell 9y ago
    I say that. I usually want to tip the driver and I want an easy way to do it. I started using Lyft because I could tip in the app. I don't want to have to carry around cash.
veridies 9y ago
If they're being bullied into this decision (and I don't think they are), it's not because they're too timid to stand up to the media. It's because their customers might leave them, because their customers prefer companies that act more justly. You're arguing that a company should act only in its own rational self-interest. That's a reasonable point of view. But there's zero evidence that this is not in Uber's self-interest. EDIT: I saw your comment in response to smt88. I do want to pay more for a taxi. I want to be able to control how much I pay according to how good of a service was provided, and I want to feel like the taxi driver is getting a decent pay rate. That's one of the reasons I typically use Lyft, and if it weren't for a terrible experience with Uber customer service, this decision would make me more likely to use Uber again.
- cocktailpeanuts 9y ago
  Look at the market share and you'll see what most people think. Good for you that you're using Lyft, but most people use Uber because they don't care about those things. Also tipping is an American (and some other countries) thing. Many countries around the world don't have the tipping culture and these people feel very uncomfortable when they are expected to tip because they don't know what's the right amount. I have lived in those countries and trust me living in a culture where tipping is expected is much more stressful.
- nailer 9y ago
  Pressuring consumers into paying more than the negotiated price isn't 'acting more justly'
  - criddell 9y ago
    There isn't much of a negotiation though. Somebody else said than an early version of the Uber app let customers define their tip in the app and it was automatically applied. Maybe they should bring that back and also give drivers the ability to filter on that value.
    - nailer 9y ago
danmaz74 9y ago
Social justice would require them to pay their drivers more, not to add tipping as an option.
- sattoshi 9y ago
  We both know that paying more is not something Uber will do. Their question was "What can we do about this without losing more money?"

smt88 9y ago

Uber is building a product consumers want. That product must have a brand that consumers don't find repugnant. You seem to want a free market, but not a market that prioritizes things (e.g. tipping) that you don't care about. You can't have it both ways. The market has spoken and Uber has responded.

cocktailpeanuts 9y ago
"I really hope I can pay more to get from A to B", said nobody. Also I don't know where your assumption "The market has spoken" comes from.
- pheldagryph 9y ago
  > "I really hope I can pay more to get from A to B", said nobody. Oh, that's me! Here's a few reasons I'd want to have the option to pay a driver a bit more: - I forced them to drive a stressful route - I forced them to drive waaay off the beaten path - They helped me schlep large items in/out of their vehicle - I inconvenienced them somehow to where it makes their next ride a bit less likely to tip / star (like making a mess in the car) > The market has spoken A driver and I recently discussed this change, and our conclusion was: "finally!". Tipping is the custom in the USA for exactly this kind of job. Making it inconvenient or impossible to tip inside the app is like garnishing drivers' wages. Some drivers really really do deserve to benefit more from their labor, and some riders really do owe their drivers a bit more.
  - lordCarbonFiber 9y ago
    Tipping is a repugnant practice full stop. Tweak the algorithm to charge more for high stress or off path routes and remove the onus on the customer to have to go through this pointless ritual. I'd much rather know my driver is paid a fair wage (and pay more upfront) by their fucking employer rather than have to be responsible of making up the difference.
    - pheldagryph 9y ago
      > Tipping is a repugnant practice full stop. Not everyone agrees. It's vulgar in my ideal world (Star Trek), but that is not the world in which we live (yet). > I'd much rather know my driver is paid a fair wage (and pay more upfront) by their fucking employer rather than have to be responsible of making up the difference. I agree with this. But, I also believe that Uber is exploiting its drivers, and that its app is not sufficient in these situations (yet?) to dispense with tipping altogether. So, on balance, I see Uber's return to the custom of this culture to be a benefit to Uber's employees.
- criddell 9y ago
  I say that. I usually want to tip the driver and I want an easy way to do it. I started using Lyft because I could tip in the app. I don't want to have to carry around cash.

veridies 9y ago

If they're being bullied into this decision (and I don't think they are), it's not because they're too timid to stand up to the media. It's because their customers might leave them, because their customers prefer companies that act more justly. You're arguing that a company should act only in its own rational self-interest. That's a reasonable point of view. But there's zero evidence that this is not in Uber's self-interest. EDIT: I saw your comment in response to smt88. I do want to pay more for a taxi. I want to be able to control how much I pay according to how good of a service was provided, and I want to feel like the taxi driver is getting a decent pay rate. That's one of the reasons I typically use Lyft, and if it weren't for a terrible experience with Uber customer service, this decision would make me more likely to use Uber again.

cocktailpeanuts 9y ago
Look at the market share and you'll see what most people think. Good for you that you're using Lyft, but most people use Uber because they don't care about those things. Also tipping is an American (and some other countries) thing. Many countries around the world don't have the tipping culture and these people feel very uncomfortable when they are expected to tip because they don't know what's the right amount. I have lived in those countries and trust me living in a culture where tipping is expected is much more stressful.
nailer 9y ago
Pressuring consumers into paying more than the negotiated price isn't 'acting more justly'
- criddell 9y ago
  There isn't much of a negotiation though. Somebody else said than an early version of the Uber app let customers define their tip in the app and it was automatically applied. Maybe they should bring that back and also give drivers the ability to filter on that value.
  - nailer 9y ago

danmaz74 9y ago

Social justice would require them to pay their drivers more, not to add tipping as an option.

sattoshi 9y ago
We both know that paying more is not something Uber will do. Their question was "What can we do about this without losing more money?"