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Google can't win. They have the system be as open as possible, and the carriers shit it up and goldbrick on updates. They start taking some of that control bac

Google can't win. They have the system be as open as possible, and the carriers shit it up and goldbrick on updates. They start taking some of that control back for the greater good, and the free software crowd crucifies them. Pick one.

ocdtrekkie 9y ago
This notion ignores the reality: That nothing about Android is actually open, because Google controls all the OEMs through confidential agreements. They've already taken all sorts of control, for the purposes of branding, monopoly expansion, etc. (They not only require over 20 apps be installed by OEMs, but dictate which are default and which appear on the homescreen and where.) The only reason the Android update situation is as bad as it is: Google doesn't want the expense or responsibility for maintaining or testing hardware support.
JadeNB 9y ago
> Pick one. I pick that there is no contradiction in my having a preference, even if different groups of people have different preferences. (EDIT: To be fair, I guess you didn't say that this is contradictory, only that "Google can't win"; so let me amend my response to: I pick that I have no responsibility to help, or even allow, Google to win.)
- Karunamon 9y ago
  At least you acknowledge you want something unreasonable.
  - JadeNB 9y ago
    > At least you acknowledge you want something unreasonable. I don't acknowledge that it is unreasonable, only that it is not universal (and that, perhaps, what I want is not in Google's best interests, or more accurately that I don't care whether it is). Just to be clear, what I want is that Google use some of its power to bring phone manufacturers into line vis a vis Android fragmentation. That this is not totally unprecedented is demonstrated by Apple's doing so (with iOS rather than Android, obviously), to, if I recall correctly, mostly applause from users. I agree that this necessarily involves some trade-off in openness, but, again, that is by no means an unprecedented trade-off; it is one to which, again, Apple has vehemently committed without sparking a total user revolt. Whether Apple's doing something should be any evidence of its reasonableness, I think that there is some case to be made about why my desire is obviously unreasonable. (See also juliand's post https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14599189 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14599189 elsethread, which is one of many pieces of evidence that Google itself finds my position reasonable, even if, as you say, it is not clear that they 'win' by taking this position.)

ocdtrekkie 9y ago

This notion ignores the reality: That nothing about Android is actually open, because Google controls all the OEMs through confidential agreements. They've already taken all sorts of control, for the purposes of branding, monopoly expansion, etc. (They not only require over 20 apps be installed by OEMs, but dictate which are default and which appear on the homescreen and where.) The only reason the Android update situation is as bad as it is: Google doesn't want the expense or responsibility for maintaining or testing hardware support.

JadeNB 9y ago

> Pick one. I pick that there is no contradiction in my having a preference, even if different groups of people have different preferences. (EDIT: To be fair, I guess you didn't say that this is contradictory, only that "Google can't win"; so let me amend my response to: I pick that I have no responsibility to help, or even allow, Google to win.)

Karunamon 9y ago
At least you acknowledge you want something unreasonable.
- JadeNB 9y ago
  > At least you acknowledge you want something unreasonable. I don't acknowledge that it is unreasonable, only that it is not universal (and that, perhaps, what I want is not in Google's best interests, or more accurately that I don't care whether it is). Just to be clear, what I want is that Google use some of its power to bring phone manufacturers into line vis a vis Android fragmentation. That this is not totally unprecedented is demonstrated by Apple's doing so (with iOS rather than Android, obviously), to, if I recall correctly, mostly applause from users. I agree that this necessarily involves some trade-off in openness, but, again, that is by no means an unprecedented trade-off; it is one to which, again, Apple has vehemently committed without sparking a total user revolt. Whether Apple's doing something should be any evidence of its reasonableness, I think that there is some case to be made about why my desire is obviously unreasonable. (See also juliand's post https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14599189 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14599189 elsethread, which is one of many pieces of evidence that Google itself finds my position reasonable, even if, as you say, it is not clear that they 'win' by taking this position.)