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Meanwhile, Amazon bans Chromecast from its store and promotes their Fire stick, yet they don't get hit with anything.

ocdtrekkie 9y ago
This is a commonly misunderstood issue, because of Google's superior PR. Amazon banned Chromecast in response to Google's refusal to allow Amazon products like the Kindle Fire from using Google services like Chromecast, without agreeing to the illegal requirement of bundling competing products like Play Books, which Amazon obviously doesn't want to load on their Kindles. Google behaved anticompetitively, Amazon responded in turn, but unfortunately, very few people are aware of the former. (And yes, Google's anticompetitive behavior regarding Android apps and services is subject to another, separate EU antitrust investigation than the one mentioned above, which is still ongoing.)
- eitally 9y ago
  This is an incomplete answer. Google Play Services are required on all OEM Android devices running supported Android distributions. Google wasn't behaving in any untoward way, but the result was Amazon's refusal as you describe. Imho, it's perfectly reasonable for Google to include Play Services as a requirement to OEMs running managed Android (as opposed to custom compiled flavors based on AOSP). Don't you agree?
  - ocdtrekkie 9y ago
    Ah, you forget how incomplete your answer is. It controls not just the Android devices with Play Services, but restricts all Androids (and SDKs based on Android) that the company releases, including strict "compatibility" requirements, which include branding, pre-installed applications, etc. Google's agreement for this is in fact, illegal anticompetitive tying (or bundling, if you prefer). Requiring that in order to support Chromecast, Amazon must include Google Play Books is a very questionable requirement legally, especially considering the other highly dominant apps they require, like Google Search, Google Maps, and Google Chrome. In almost every civilized country, it's illegal for a company to use one monopoly to expand it's reach into another market. (Like to use these bundling requirements to encroach on the Kindle ebook market.) If, as you suggest, however, it's perfectly reasonable to require all this of Amazon in exchange for Kindle support, isn't it perfectly reasonable for Amazon to decide not to sell hardware not compatible with their products?
- bitmapbrother 9y ago
  >Amazon banned Chromecast in response to Google's refusal to allow Amazon products like the Kindle Fire from using Google services like Chromecast, Can you please cite where you got this information from?
  - ocdtrekkie 9y ago
    Amazon will continue to sell streaming media devices that compete with its Fire TV and Fire Stick, including the Roku, Microsoft Xbox and Sony PlayStation -- all of which allow customers to stream Prime videos. In an emailed statement, Amazon called all of those devices "excellent choices." "Over the last three years, Prime Video has become an important part of Prime," the statement says. "It's important that the streaming media players we sell interact well with Prime Video in order to avoid customer confusion." http://money.cnn.com/2015/10/01/technology/amazon-bans-apple-tv-google-chromecast/index.html#sthash.p68ZL5m3.dpuf http://money.cnn.com/2015/10/01/technology/amazon-bans-apple... Combined this with Google's relatively secret (but well known to you, oh avid reader of my comments here) Mobile Applications Distribution Agreement (or MADA) which places heavy requirements on what Android devices can be if they have Google Play Services, like forbidding so-called "incompatible forks". I mean, bitmapbrother, it only makes sense that Amazon only sells products compatible with their own products. The Apple Store doesn't sell chargers for the Galaxy S8! That would be madness. If Google wants their products sold on Amazon, they should feel free to loosen up their license restrictions to permit compatibility.
    - bitmapbrother 9y ago
      I asked for a citation for your claim and all you've done it present a theory with no evidence to back it up. Also, Amazon is free to use Google Services providing their devices pass the CTS. In fact, their rumored Ice phones will use GMS.
skinnymuch 9y ago
Google didn't allow Amazon's devices which are just tablets (since their phone failed) to interact with Chromecast, no?
- on_and_off 9y ago
  Source ? Never heard this.
  - skinnymuch 9y ago
    Can't find it right now, hopefully i do before i'm not allowed to respond anymore.

This is a commonly misunderstood issue, because of Google's superior PR. Amazon banned Chromecast in response to Google's refusal to allow Amazon products like the Kindle Fire from using Google services like Chromecast, without agreeing to the illegal requirement of bundling competing products like Play Books, which Amazon obviously doesn't want to load on their Kindles. Google behaved anticompetitively, Amazon responded in turn, but unfortunately, very few people are aware of the former. (And yes, Google's anticompetitive behavior regarding Android apps and services is subject to another, separate EU antitrust investigation than the one mentioned above, which is still ongoing.)

eitally 9y ago
This is an incomplete answer. Google Play Services are required on all OEM Android devices running supported Android distributions. Google wasn't behaving in any untoward way, but the result was Amazon's refusal as you describe. Imho, it's perfectly reasonable for Google to include Play Services as a requirement to OEMs running managed Android (as opposed to custom compiled flavors based on AOSP). Don't you agree?
- ocdtrekkie 9y ago
  Ah, you forget how incomplete your answer is. It controls not just the Android devices with Play Services, but restricts all Androids (and SDKs based on Android) that the company releases, including strict "compatibility" requirements, which include branding, pre-installed applications, etc. Google's agreement for this is in fact, illegal anticompetitive tying (or bundling, if you prefer). Requiring that in order to support Chromecast, Amazon must include Google Play Books is a very questionable requirement legally, especially considering the other highly dominant apps they require, like Google Search, Google Maps, and Google Chrome. In almost every civilized country, it's illegal for a company to use one monopoly to expand it's reach into another market. (Like to use these bundling requirements to encroach on the Kindle ebook market.) If, as you suggest, however, it's perfectly reasonable to require all this of Amazon in exchange for Kindle support, isn't it perfectly reasonable for Amazon to decide not to sell hardware not compatible with their products?
bitmapbrother 9y ago
>Amazon banned Chromecast in response to Google's refusal to allow Amazon products like the Kindle Fire from using Google services like Chromecast, Can you please cite where you got this information from?
- ocdtrekkie 9y ago
  Amazon will continue to sell streaming media devices that compete with its Fire TV and Fire Stick, including the Roku, Microsoft Xbox and Sony PlayStation -- all of which allow customers to stream Prime videos. In an emailed statement, Amazon called all of those devices "excellent choices." "Over the last three years, Prime Video has become an important part of Prime," the statement says. "It's important that the streaming media players we sell interact well with Prime Video in order to avoid customer confusion." http://money.cnn.com/2015/10/01/technology/amazon-bans-apple-tv-google-chromecast/index.html#sthash.p68ZL5m3.dpuf http://money.cnn.com/2015/10/01/technology/amazon-bans-apple... Combined this with Google's relatively secret (but well known to you, oh avid reader of my comments here) Mobile Applications Distribution Agreement (or MADA) which places heavy requirements on what Android devices can be if they have Google Play Services, like forbidding so-called "incompatible forks". I mean, bitmapbrother, it only makes sense that Amazon only sells products compatible with their own products. The Apple Store doesn't sell chargers for the Galaxy S8! That would be madness. If Google wants their products sold on Amazon, they should feel free to loosen up their license restrictions to permit compatibility.
  - bitmapbrother 9y ago
    I asked for a citation for your claim and all you've done it present a theory with no evidence to back it up. Also, Amazon is free to use Google Services providing their devices pass the CTS. In fact, their rumored Ice phones will use GMS.

skinnymuch 9y ago

Google didn't allow Amazon's devices which are just tablets (since their phone failed) to interact with Chromecast, no?

on_and_off 9y ago
Source ? Never heard this.
- skinnymuch 9y ago
  Can't find it right now, hopefully i do before i'm not allowed to respond anymore.