4 ms·

I'm seriously confused on this. First, the article throws out some very reasonable sounding things, like older dads are more established and stable parents. T

by cbanek 9y ago

I'm seriously confused on this. First, the article throws out some very reasonable sounding things, like older dads are more established and stable parents. This seems totally legit. Then they start talking of a 'geek gene' that gets passed down by dads as they get older? That seems ridiculous to me. We don't even know how general intelligence works on a genetic level. Overall, I feel like we put way too much stock in genetics over how children are raised. The world children live in today (screens, different types of processed food, flashy movies and cartoons) is so different than hundreds or thousands of years ago. Early childhood years are also hugely important for brain development and social skills yet we give little kids screens to keep them quiet, hooking them early. Just seems like any excuse to not involve parenting is in vogue now.

chongli 9y ago
Then they start talking of a 'geek gene' that gets passed down by dads as they get older? That seems ridiculous to me. We don't even know how general intelligence works on a genetic level. That's a bit silly. Far more plausible is the supposition I will make here: geeky guys are less likely to be teenage fathers and geekiness is generally heritable. There, no epigenetic assumption necessary.
- cbanek 9y ago
  If by 'heritable' you mean 'learned behavior' then I'd agree.
  - quadrangle 9y ago
    look up the difference between inheritable and heritable. Very linguistically bizarre. (note: am not OP from above)
    - cbanek 9y ago
      heritable - able to be inherited, in particular. inheritable - capable of being inherited. Inflammable means flammable? What a country. Sure you can inherit behaviors, but I'm trying to be specific and say I don't believe it's genetically inherited, but a behavior that is learned. Kids learn by mimicking.
      - quadrangle 9y ago
        Okay but in genetics, these terms are used distinctly for some reason. Heritable → polygenic attributes that may be partially passed on Inheritable → (mainly monogenic) attributes that can be passed on Something like that, I don't get it really but genetics uses the terms differently. Searched for deeper resources, didn't find any easily.
manyoso 9y ago
Almost every study on early childhood development and later outcomes shows that how a child is raised has very little to do with outcomes compared to heredity. https://www.vox.com/2015/8/11/9127769/parenting-advice-worthless https://www.vox.com/2015/8/11/9127769/parenting-advice-worth... https://www.vox.com/2015/3/31/8320233/time-spent-with-kids https://www.vox.com/2015/3/31/8320233/time-spent-with-kids http://quillette.com/2016/01/19/heritability-and-why-parents-but-not-parenting-matter/ http://quillette.com/2016/01/19/heritability-and-why-parents...
- cbanek 9y ago
  I looked at your links, but I'm still not sure I buy it. All of these seem to quote the same study, and it doesn't involve any child under 3, which is actually where a lot of early childhood development happens. That's the time when a child who's left alone in a room will basically turn into a vegetable. I do agree that there's no magic formula for being a great parent. The baby Beethoven phenom, best color to paint your baby's room, etc are indeed useless. But that's good parents who actually care trying to read studies and be better. These parents are involved, and care. Not all parents are like that. From your second article: "In fact, the study found one key instance when parent time can be particularly harmful to children. That’s when parents, mothers in particular, are stressed, sleep-deprived, guilty and anxious." This sounds like exactly the kind of thing that would happen less with older, more established parents. On the other hand, if the parents can't hold a job, or are addicted to drugs, I think you'd be hard pressed to say that doesn't have an effect on childhood outcomes. If anything, parents who are criminals are more likely to have children that are criminals. If you want to say criminality is genetic, that's a fair argument. But I believe it's more likely to be about class/race/means, and is a set of learned behaviors. I think there's a limit to how good parenting can affect outcomes to the positive (genetics). But I also think bad parenting can't be ruled out. And none of these studies talk about sub-par parenting.
  - imron 9y ago
    > This sounds like exactly the kind of thing that would happen less with older, more established parents Conversely, younger people are better at handling things like sleep deprivation and so on.
Rylinks 9y ago
We learned about hereditary traits long before gene sequencing even existed. You do not need to know how something works on a genetic level to make strong conclusions about heritability. That being said, this specific case looks like bad reporting about a tepid study, so I wouldn't be surprised if it were totally wrong.

by cbanek 9y ago

chongli 9y ago

Then they start talking of a 'geek gene' that gets passed down by dads as they get older? That seems ridiculous to me. We don't even know how general intelligence works on a genetic level. That's a bit silly. Far more plausible is the supposition I will make here: geeky guys are less likely to be teenage fathers and geekiness is generally heritable. There, no epigenetic assumption necessary.

cbanek 9y ago
If by 'heritable' you mean 'learned behavior' then I'd agree.
- quadrangle 9y ago
  look up the difference between inheritable and heritable. Very linguistically bizarre. (note: am not OP from above)
  - cbanek 9y ago
    heritable - able to be inherited, in particular. inheritable - capable of being inherited. Inflammable means flammable? What a country. Sure you can inherit behaviors, but I'm trying to be specific and say I don't believe it's genetically inherited, but a behavior that is learned. Kids learn by mimicking.
    - quadrangle 9y ago
      Okay but in genetics, these terms are used distinctly for some reason. Heritable → polygenic attributes that may be partially passed on Inheritable → (mainly monogenic) attributes that can be passed on Something like that, I don't get it really but genetics uses the terms differently. Searched for deeper resources, didn't find any easily.

manyoso 9y ago

Almost every study on early childhood development and later outcomes shows that how a child is raised has very little to do with outcomes compared to heredity. https://www.vox.com/2015/8/11/9127769/parenting-advice-worthless https://www.vox.com/2015/8/11/9127769/parenting-advice-worth... https://www.vox.com/2015/3/31/8320233/time-spent-with-kids https://www.vox.com/2015/3/31/8320233/time-spent-with-kids http://quillette.com/2016/01/19/heritability-and-why-parents-but-not-parenting-matter/ http://quillette.com/2016/01/19/heritability-and-why-parents...

cbanek 9y ago
I looked at your links, but I'm still not sure I buy it. All of these seem to quote the same study, and it doesn't involve any child under 3, which is actually where a lot of early childhood development happens. That's the time when a child who's left alone in a room will basically turn into a vegetable. I do agree that there's no magic formula for being a great parent. The baby Beethoven phenom, best color to paint your baby's room, etc are indeed useless. But that's good parents who actually care trying to read studies and be better. These parents are involved, and care. Not all parents are like that. From your second article: "In fact, the study found one key instance when parent time can be particularly harmful to children. That’s when parents, mothers in particular, are stressed, sleep-deprived, guilty and anxious." This sounds like exactly the kind of thing that would happen less with older, more established parents. On the other hand, if the parents can't hold a job, or are addicted to drugs, I think you'd be hard pressed to say that doesn't have an effect on childhood outcomes. If anything, parents who are criminals are more likely to have children that are criminals. If you want to say criminality is genetic, that's a fair argument. But I believe it's more likely to be about class/race/means, and is a set of learned behaviors. I think there's a limit to how good parenting can affect outcomes to the positive (genetics). But I also think bad parenting can't be ruled out. And none of these studies talk about sub-par parenting.
- imron 9y ago
  > This sounds like exactly the kind of thing that would happen less with older, more established parents Conversely, younger people are better at handling things like sleep deprivation and so on.

Rylinks 9y ago

We learned about hereditary traits long before gene sequencing even existed. You do not need to know how something works on a genetic level to make strong conclusions about heritability. That being said, this specific case looks like bad reporting about a tepid study, so I wouldn't be surprised if it were totally wrong.