5 ms·

APL Keyboards

16 points by chrislloyd 16y ago

silentbicycle 16y ago
Whoa, are all these APL-related links springing up because I posted about K today? Huh. I'm not convinced that a vastly different keyboard layout with the same form factor is a big deal. I've been typing Dvorak for several years now, and have never once touched a non-Qwerty-labeled keyboard. (I like split + ergonomic keyboards, though.)
- Kadin 16y ago
  I wonder if the keyboard in question is actually different at the hardware level -- in the sense of transmitting different scan codes -- from any of their other models, or if the difference is simply cosmetic (different keycaps). Either way, you could do the same thing in software, but I suspect that learning the layout (which is even more foreign to most people than Dvorak) would be hard without the keys. Still, you could probably get a spare set of keycaps or just a cheap keyboard and write the glyphs on there with Sharpie for the time it took you to learn. Still, it's kinda neat. Also, opening saved APL files and displaying them correctly (with the modern Unicode equivalents) is probably a good test for anyone writing an editor these days. I assume it must have used its own high-ASCII codepage to store the uncommon characters.
  - silentbicycle 16y ago
    Historically many of the APL glyphs were produced via digraphs - 'quad' is [] overstruck, making a narrow rectangle. The rotation verbs overstrike a circle with -, |, or \. While the original character set was different* , it seems like a reasonable alternative to a completely different keyboard layout (in hardware or software). * According to the APL book I was looking through recently, some keyboards required the user to overstrike ' and . to get an ! (!).
alex1 16y ago
I bet this seller was one of PG's first clients at ViaWeb.
- mkramlich 16y ago
  I'm picturing PG plopping into a shell, going into an old code repo, studying it a bit, whipping up a little script to exercise an exploit or do the protocol equivalent of knocking on a secret back door... bingo and then he posts, "Yes, they're still running it!"
jseliger 16y ago
These keyboards, BTW, are Model Ms; I wrote a review of the Customizer here: http://jseliger.com/2008/05/07/product-review-unicomp-customizer-keyboard http://jseliger.com/2008/05/07/product-review-unicomp-custom... , which is also sold by Unicomp.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
mkramlich 16y ago
If it looks a little dusty it's because they've been remodelling it. Since 1996. Almost done though.
georgieporgie 16y ago
Hee hee, look at those cute little down- and sideways-butt symbols on the W and E keys! (seriously, though, I had no idea what this was about. Apparently, it's a keyboard with specific meta-keys for writing the programming language, which appears to use a lot of unusual symbols... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APL_(programming_language) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APL_(programming_language) )
mkelly 16y ago
Does anyone have a model M from these folks (with or without APL keys)? Is it good? Any thoughts? I've been hankering for a buckling-spring keyboard for years now (ever since I used one at university), but I'm a little hesitant to put down the cash when my $13 keyboard works perfectly fine...
- jseliger 16y ago
  I do -- see my comment here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1459962 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1459962 . Or go straight to the long review I wrote: http://jseliger.com/2008/05/07/product-review-unicomp-customizer-keyboard http://jseliger.com/2008/05/07/product-review-unicomp-custom... . Short answer: the Customizer is very nice. If you're going to do it, get the Space Saver, which is the same keyboard but with a smaller plastic border and thus easier to fit on most desks. But now I use a Kinesis Advantage: http://jseliger.com/2009/07/20/kinesis-advantage http://jseliger.com/2009/07/20/kinesis-advantage , which is better still, although the cost is high in both financial and retraining terms.
strlen 16y ago
What are some other languages that have embraced a non-Latin character set (internationalized languages, using different alphabets not withstanding e.g., Soviet versions of BASIC that used Cyrillic)? Guy Steele's Fortress seems to partly do so (allowing the code to be beautifully typeset). Are there any Lisp dialects that allow a literal λ to be use in place of (lambda (...))?
- shaunxcode 16y ago
  racket allows this! I would love a keyboard w/ a lambda key.

16 points by chrislloyd 16y ago

Whoa, are all these APL-related links springing up because I posted about K today? Huh. I'm not convinced that a vastly different keyboard layout with the same form factor is a big deal. I've been typing Dvorak for several years now, and have never once touched a non-Qwerty-labeled keyboard. (I like split + ergonomic keyboards, though.)

Kadin 16y ago
I wonder if the keyboard in question is actually different at the hardware level -- in the sense of transmitting different scan codes -- from any of their other models, or if the difference is simply cosmetic (different keycaps). Either way, you could do the same thing in software, but I suspect that learning the layout (which is even more foreign to most people than Dvorak) would be hard without the keys. Still, you could probably get a spare set of keycaps or just a cheap keyboard and write the glyphs on there with Sharpie for the time it took you to learn. Still, it's kinda neat. Also, opening saved APL files and displaying them correctly (with the modern Unicode equivalents) is probably a good test for anyone writing an editor these days. I assume it must have used its own high-ASCII codepage to store the uncommon characters.
- silentbicycle 16y ago
  Historically many of the APL glyphs were produced via digraphs - 'quad' is [] overstruck, making a narrow rectangle. The rotation verbs overstrike a circle with -, |, or \. While the original character set was different* , it seems like a reasonable alternative to a completely different keyboard layout (in hardware or software). * According to the APL book I was looking through recently, some keyboards required the user to overstrike ' and . to get an ! (!).

alex1 16y ago

I bet this seller was one of PG's first clients at ViaWeb.

mkramlich 16y ago
I'm picturing PG plopping into a shell, going into an old code repo, studying it a bit, whipping up a little script to exercise an exploit or do the protocol equivalent of knocking on a secret back door... bingo and then he posts, "Yes, they're still running it!"

jseliger 16y ago

These keyboards, BTW, are Model Ms; I wrote a review of the Customizer here: http://jseliger.com/2008/05/07/product-review-unicomp-customizer-keyboard http://jseliger.com/2008/05/07/product-review-unicomp-custom... , which is also sold by Unicomp.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

mkramlich 16y ago

If it looks a little dusty it's because they've been remodelling it. Since 1996. Almost done though.

georgieporgie 16y ago

Hee hee, look at those cute little down- and sideways-butt symbols on the W and E keys! (seriously, though, I had no idea what this was about. Apparently, it's a keyboard with specific meta-keys for writing the programming language, which appears to use a lot of unusual symbols... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APL_(programming_language) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APL_(programming_language) )

mkelly 16y ago

Does anyone have a model M from these folks (with or without APL keys)? Is it good? Any thoughts? I've been hankering for a buckling-spring keyboard for years now (ever since I used one at university), but I'm a little hesitant to put down the cash when my $13 keyboard works perfectly fine...

jseliger 16y ago
I do -- see my comment here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1459962 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1459962 . Or go straight to the long review I wrote: http://jseliger.com/2008/05/07/product-review-unicomp-customizer-keyboard http://jseliger.com/2008/05/07/product-review-unicomp-custom... . Short answer: the Customizer is very nice. If you're going to do it, get the Space Saver, which is the same keyboard but with a smaller plastic border and thus easier to fit on most desks. But now I use a Kinesis Advantage: http://jseliger.com/2009/07/20/kinesis-advantage http://jseliger.com/2009/07/20/kinesis-advantage , which is better still, although the cost is high in both financial and retraining terms.

strlen 16y ago

What are some other languages that have embraced a non-Latin character set (internationalized languages, using different alphabets not withstanding e.g., Soviet versions of BASIC that used Cyrillic)? Guy Steele's Fortress seems to partly do so (allowing the code to be beautifully typeset). Are there any Lisp dialects that allow a literal λ to be use in place of (lambda (...))?

shaunxcode 16y ago
racket allows this! I would love a keyboard w/ a lambda key.