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ID movement uses information theory to correlate the complexity of such mechanisms (each part having specific components and being in the right place at the rig

ID movement uses information theory to correlate the complexity of such mechanisms (each part having specific components and being in the right place at the right time) with their probability of realization. The amount of information present in a system is inversely proportional with the probability of that mechanism realization. The more information there is, the less the probability. If no intelligent agent is at work, that is.

yequalsx 9y ago
It's that second statement that is wrong. If that is one of the foundations of the ID movement then it is on quite shaken grounds. Let's suppose god exists and is extremely powerful and intelligent. The amount of information contained in the system god is vastly greater than on Earth. Thus by the statements you've made the probability of the god system being natural, that is not created by an intelligent agent, is orders of magnitude closer to zero than the system on Earth. OK, so ID people will claim that god is the sole uncreated intelligence, or uncaused event. But they are at the same point no -ID people are at. Namely, that very complex systems can exist without being created.
0xfeba 9y ago
> with their probability of realization But they, and this is expressed very well in the NOVA documentary about the Dover trial, always assume the components have to work as is in the end result. The bacterial flagellum, for example, is one of the examples they keep trotting out despite counter-examples of it used as an injection mechanism in bacteria, and other things. To re-use the analogy from the documentary. They see organisms like mousetraps. And if any part is removed it no longer functions. That's true to an extent. It no longer functions as a mousetrap, but it could function for a variety of other things. The mousetrap is a flawed analogy because it does not pursue self-preservation, so it's easy to say "well it's useless now" from our perspective, but not so much when it comes to actual living things that we know little about.

yequalsx 9y ago

It's that second statement that is wrong. If that is one of the foundations of the ID movement then it is on quite shaken grounds. Let's suppose god exists and is extremely powerful and intelligent. The amount of information contained in the system god is vastly greater than on Earth. Thus by the statements you've made the probability of the god system being natural, that is not created by an intelligent agent, is orders of magnitude closer to zero than the system on Earth. OK, so ID people will claim that god is the sole uncreated intelligence, or uncaused event. But they are at the same point no -ID people are at. Namely, that very complex systems can exist without being created.

0xfeba 9y ago

> with their probability of realization But they, and this is expressed very well in the NOVA documentary about the Dover trial, always assume the components have to work as is in the end result. The bacterial flagellum, for example, is one of the examples they keep trotting out despite counter-examples of it used as an injection mechanism in bacteria, and other things. To re-use the analogy from the documentary. They see organisms like mousetraps. And if any part is removed it no longer functions. That's true to an extent. It no longer functions as a mousetrap, but it could function for a variety of other things. The mousetrap is a flawed analogy because it does not pursue self-preservation, so it's easy to say "well it's useless now" from our perspective, but not so much when it comes to actual living things that we know little about.