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As a loony lefty myself, I find it really disappointing that Labour has decided to take the turns it has with regard to protecting civil liberties. This is just

by ue_ 9y ago

As a loony lefty myself, I find it really disappointing that Labour has decided to take the turns it has with regard to protecting civil liberties. This is just about my only qualm with the leftist parties in the UK; they have little or no emphasis on protecting the right to privacy, freedom of expression etc. and even the right to possess certain drawings, which was made illegal in 2009, as I remember via the proposal of a Labour MP. Is it really so much to ask for a democratic Socialist party that favours protecting civil liberties? One would think it's in the interest of the proletariat. Oscar Wilde would be in favour of it.

ionised 9y ago
> I find it really disappointing that Labour has decided to take the turns it has with regard to protecting civil liberties. This is just about my only qualm with the leftist parties in the UK; they have little or no emphasis on protecting the right to privacy, freedom of expression etc. The issue here is that Labour governments under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown were decidedly NOT leftist. They were very much a Tory-lite neoliberal party. Remnants of those priests of a dying religion still plague the PLP today and spent the better part of Corbyn's leadership attempting to undermine him. My MP is Angela Eagle. A self-described socially progressive lesbian that you would imagine would be on the side of civil liberties and democracy, yet her record speaks for itself; - Refused to vote against Tory welfare cuts - Voted in favour of the war in Iraq - Voted in favour of the bombing of Libya - Voted three times to block investigations into the decision to go war in Iraq - Voted in favour of national identity cards - Voted in favour of Theresa May's Investigatory Powers Bill (legalised mass surveillance of Britain) She is the kind of 'leftist' that made the Labour party utterly right-wing.
- ue_ 9y ago
  That's an interesting point and I'm inclined to agree with you there. I don't know if it's an urban legend or not, but apparently when Thatcher was questioned on what her greatest acheivement was, she answered 'New Labour'. It's a real shame what the options have been in terms of electable leftist parties and policies in the past few years, so I'd very much agree with you. As to what Corbyn is going to do about it, I don't know, but I'm not a pessimist in this regard.
- mcv 9y ago
  A couple of years ago, when the LibDems supported Cameron's government, I concluded that the UK's political system was made up of 3 conservative parties. Both Blair's New Labour and the LibDems are an utter disappointment. If I lived in England (I don't), I'd be pissed I couldn't vote for the SNP. They seem to be the only sane party there. It would be interesting to see them gain seats south of the border.
gadders 9y ago
>> even the right to possess certain drawings These would be drawings of child pornography, just to clarify.
- ue_ 9y ago
  Are you implying that the restriction is right, because of the content, even how disgusting as it may be? I don't think drawings should be censored, and I see no basis behind censoring them.
  - gadders 9y ago
    I think that it is a relevant factor for people to consider to make a view on whether the policy is correct or not.
    - ue_ 9y ago
      It's worth viewing in the larger context though - it shows that the legislature has no problem censoring things, even possession of certain things, without evidence. In my opinion that sets a rather big precedent, whether you disagree with the specific content in this instance or not. In terms of the principle, the actual content shouldn't matter in the slightest.

by ue_ 9y ago

ionised 9y ago

> I find it really disappointing that Labour has decided to take the turns it has with regard to protecting civil liberties. This is just about my only qualm with the leftist parties in the UK; they have little or no emphasis on protecting the right to privacy, freedom of expression etc. The issue here is that Labour governments under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown were decidedly NOT leftist. They were very much a Tory-lite neoliberal party. Remnants of those priests of a dying religion still plague the PLP today and spent the better part of Corbyn's leadership attempting to undermine him. My MP is Angela Eagle. A self-described socially progressive lesbian that you would imagine would be on the side of civil liberties and democracy, yet her record speaks for itself; - Refused to vote against Tory welfare cuts - Voted in favour of the war in Iraq - Voted in favour of the bombing of Libya - Voted three times to block investigations into the decision to go war in Iraq - Voted in favour of national identity cards - Voted in favour of Theresa May's Investigatory Powers Bill (legalised mass surveillance of Britain) She is the kind of 'leftist' that made the Labour party utterly right-wing.

ue_ 9y ago
That's an interesting point and I'm inclined to agree with you there. I don't know if it's an urban legend or not, but apparently when Thatcher was questioned on what her greatest acheivement was, she answered 'New Labour'. It's a real shame what the options have been in terms of electable leftist parties and policies in the past few years, so I'd very much agree with you. As to what Corbyn is going to do about it, I don't know, but I'm not a pessimist in this regard.
mcv 9y ago
A couple of years ago, when the LibDems supported Cameron's government, I concluded that the UK's political system was made up of 3 conservative parties. Both Blair's New Labour and the LibDems are an utter disappointment. If I lived in England (I don't), I'd be pissed I couldn't vote for the SNP. They seem to be the only sane party there. It would be interesting to see them gain seats south of the border.

gadders 9y ago

>> even the right to possess certain drawings These would be drawings of child pornography, just to clarify.

ue_ 9y ago
Are you implying that the restriction is right, because of the content, even how disgusting as it may be? I don't think drawings should be censored, and I see no basis behind censoring them.
- gadders 9y ago
  I think that it is a relevant factor for people to consider to make a view on whether the policy is correct or not.
  - ue_ 9y ago
    It's worth viewing in the larger context though - it shows that the legislature has no problem censoring things, even possession of certain things, without evidence. In my opinion that sets a rather big precedent, whether you disagree with the specific content in this instance or not. In terms of the principle, the actual content shouldn't matter in the slightest.