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> takes a few mins at most to setup Now there's hyperbole. Let's be honest. Unless you do it for a living, at best it takes a few hours to set up boilerplate

> takes a few mins at most to setup Now there's hyperbole. Let's be honest. Unless you do it for a living, at best it takes a few hours to set up boilerplate for any modern js project today. And let's also be honest that es6 is a must today and script tags are not an option until browser es6 support is ubiquitous. Last project I set up, grunt and browserify were the thing. You were an idiot if you weren't using them. Apparently now it's webpack and gulp. In another year it'll be some other crap. The first step to dealing with a problem is admitting there is one. I'm not sure labeling comments that highlight the problem 'hyperbole' is constructive in any way.

cygned 9y ago
I work with JavaScript and related technologies every day and I am still annoyed to setup new projects because if half a year had passed, everything seems to be different - especially in the React ecosystem (at least from my POV).
- kbody 9y ago
  Exactly, I think one reason why this trend hasn't stopped while most of the fellow devs I know are sick of it, is that JS attracts a lot of new devs. Being new they start developing on JS/React, but they don't have the painful experience and thus have more tolerance until they too get sick of it and try to keep things minimal, but then more new devs start which fuel the never-ending circle. In the end it's not the new devs' fault of course, but rather the lib authors who don't treat their software as something that needs to be stable among other things. Personally I try to KISS, but unfortunately on work I have to deal with this mess.
bigleagueposter 9y ago
Can't you just use a project starter script and get it set up in minutes?
- aaron-lebo 9y ago
  Yeah, or use git clone from a template you've setup. It's a nonsensical complaint.
- bicubic 9y ago
  Which one? The one with webpack? 1? 2? Now 3? What about react? And redux. And react HMR. Oh and you probably need immutable.js if you want to use react the 'proper' way not like those fools last year. Your starter script was configured with react-router? That's a shame, because it's no longer the latest and greatest, and everyone knows you should have moved on to React Mini Router. Or is it React Universal Router now? Wait is the particular configuration of webpack in this starter script even compatible with the latest and greatest babel-loader? Hang on, you wanted to use promises? Yeah, that's another plugin for polyfill and more config that interacts with most of the above. Don't worry though, there's plenty of tutorials to get it working with webpack... Oh wait, they're all for webpack v1 and you're on v2.
  - aaron-lebo 9y ago
    So don't upgrade to the latest and greatest tech? Find something that works and use it just like anything else. Is your complaint really that there's new tech out and you have the option to use it? Do you complain every time a new language releases? Do you use Django 1.2 because you don't feel like upgrading to 1.3, 1.5, 1.8? I don't exaggerate in saying that the comments you've posted in this thread have taken more time than it would take to have a basic webpack setup.
rtpg 9y ago
_very_ dependent on what you're using. If you just use Typescript with some libraries, you just need to setup your tsconfig.json. Maybe a package.json to track your dependencies, or just vendor them in! The compiler even includes an incremental watch mode! Almost all projects start off with some infrastructure. There's easier paths than others.
manigandham 9y ago
What exactly do you think the problem is? Especially since you dont have to do anything. The webpack config is a few lines at minimum, and yes you can type it by hand in a few mins. It's just a bundler which is completely separate from the actual libraries you use. It takes in a entry file, walks dependencies, gathers the modules together, and outputs a single bundle at the end. It works with JS by default but can handle other file types with loaders. That's it, just a big pipeline of stuff. Use plugins like babili and you can have streamlined source files that are transpiled and minified in a single step with the latest browser compatibility tables. It's not required yet takes less than an afternoon to learn. Backend development and build steps get very complicated so why is frontend work not allowed to have complexity given the rise of sophisticated webapps today?

cygned 9y ago

I work with JavaScript and related technologies every day and I am still annoyed to setup new projects because if half a year had passed, everything seems to be different - especially in the React ecosystem (at least from my POV).

kbody 9y ago
Exactly, I think one reason why this trend hasn't stopped while most of the fellow devs I know are sick of it, is that JS attracts a lot of new devs. Being new they start developing on JS/React, but they don't have the painful experience and thus have more tolerance until they too get sick of it and try to keep things minimal, but then more new devs start which fuel the never-ending circle. In the end it's not the new devs' fault of course, but rather the lib authors who don't treat their software as something that needs to be stable among other things. Personally I try to KISS, but unfortunately on work I have to deal with this mess.

bigleagueposter 9y ago

Can't you just use a project starter script and get it set up in minutes?

aaron-lebo 9y ago
Yeah, or use git clone from a template you've setup. It's a nonsensical complaint.
bicubic 9y ago
Which one? The one with webpack? 1? 2? Now 3? What about react? And redux. And react HMR. Oh and you probably need immutable.js if you want to use react the 'proper' way not like those fools last year. Your starter script was configured with react-router? That's a shame, because it's no longer the latest and greatest, and everyone knows you should have moved on to React Mini Router. Or is it React Universal Router now? Wait is the particular configuration of webpack in this starter script even compatible with the latest and greatest babel-loader? Hang on, you wanted to use promises? Yeah, that's another plugin for polyfill and more config that interacts with most of the above. Don't worry though, there's plenty of tutorials to get it working with webpack... Oh wait, they're all for webpack v1 and you're on v2.
- aaron-lebo 9y ago
  So don't upgrade to the latest and greatest tech? Find something that works and use it just like anything else. Is your complaint really that there's new tech out and you have the option to use it? Do you complain every time a new language releases? Do you use Django 1.2 because you don't feel like upgrading to 1.3, 1.5, 1.8? I don't exaggerate in saying that the comments you've posted in this thread have taken more time than it would take to have a basic webpack setup.

rtpg 9y ago

_very_ dependent on what you're using. If you just use Typescript with some libraries, you just need to setup your tsconfig.json. Maybe a package.json to track your dependencies, or just vendor them in! The compiler even includes an incremental watch mode! Almost all projects start off with some infrastructure. There's easier paths than others.

manigandham 9y ago

What exactly do you think the problem is? Especially since you dont have to do anything. The webpack config is a few lines at minimum, and yes you can type it by hand in a few mins. It's just a bundler which is completely separate from the actual libraries you use. It takes in a entry file, walks dependencies, gathers the modules together, and outputs a single bundle at the end. It works with JS by default but can handle other file types with loaders. That's it, just a big pipeline of stuff. Use plugins like babili and you can have streamlined source files that are transpiled and minified in a single step with the latest browser compatibility tables. It's not required yet takes less than an afternoon to learn. Backend development and build steps get very complicated so why is frontend work not allowed to have complexity given the rise of sophisticated webapps today?