4 ms·

European MEPs want to ban states from backdooring encryption

118 points by janober 9y ago

jamiethompson 9y ago
Yet another reason to be sad about having my EU citizenship forcibly removed. The UK government want the exact opposite of this.
- lloeki 9y ago
  I can relate but complain all you want, it wasn't "forcibly" removed, it was democratically so.
  - onion2k 9y ago
    democratically For a value of 'democratically' where billionaire media tycoons controlled the narrative.
    - hd4 9y ago
      Virtually-unknown tech companies too: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great...
    - reitanqild 9y ago
      And a lot of people you obviously didn't agree with. Can't say I supported neither Trump nor Brexit but at least I think I can see that it was democratic even if they weren't my choices: people were angry and scared and voted accordingly.
  - Certhas 9y ago
    How not both? You are forced to comply with the law, even if it is democratically legitimized.
  - collyw 9y ago
    When the voters were made promises about 350 million per week to the NHS, that was backtracked on within hours of the result, do you really consider it democratic?
    - krona 9y ago
      On the flip-side, we were also promised a punishment budget, higher interest rates and the end of western civilization. I think it's rather snooty of you to think that the plebs who didn't agree with you don't know how to distinguish fact from fiction.
      - collyw 9y ago
        Where did I say that I didn't agree with them? I am merely pointing out that the lies before the referendum made it pretty undemocratic.
  - jamiethompson 9y ago
    Sure. You can argue that it was democratic, but I personally do not choose to lose my citizenship, therefore my citizenship is being taken from me, forcibly.
- hd4 9y ago
  Completely agree. I wonder when we are going to see whatever small tech/startup scene exists in the UK evaporate away into France/Germany/other-European-country and whether that will affect any policy change by this anti-tech government. Probably never. edit: I guess it's worth following on from that by asking what's the closest Euro equivalent to SV we currently have? I'm seriously considering France or Spain for a variety of reasons. Though I've heard Estonia is trying hard to become Europe's SV.
- Joakal 9y ago
  How did you get EU citizenship in the first place?
  - esolyt 9y ago
    By being born in the UK.
- mtgx 9y ago
  I understand. But from my point of view, this may not have happened if the UK was still a member, as they would've forcefully pushed in the opposite direction. So I'm glad the UK is exiting before they can do any lasting damage to EU values. If the UK isn't happy with the Fundamental Charter of Rights of the EU, then it's free to pass its own "Bill of (Non-) Rights".
  - krona 9y ago
    The UK is still a member of the EU.
  - jamiethompson 9y ago
    The UK is still an active member of the EU. We haven't left yet.
cabalamat 9y ago
What will the EU do about operating systems developed outside the EU, such as MS Windows, iOS, or Android? If these contain a backdoor for the NSA, it is unlikely that the manufactureres will tell the EU that they do. Therefore if the EU is serious about this (and it should be), it should develop its own operating systems, and mandate them for all enterprises that store personal or sensitive data (which means all enterprises). Doing this, while necessary, is not sufficient to stop backdoors, because they could be implemented at the hardware level. Many chips are manufactured in the far east, and China is a state that may be hostile to the EU in future. So the EU needs all chips to be designed and manufactured on its own soil, if it wants digital independence.
- ginko 9y ago
  I guess they could sue the hell out of any company that is revealed to have an NSA backdoor.
  - chopin 9y ago
    You mean like the companies which have been sued for selling ridiculously vulnerable routers which have been compromised for years by the CIA? It's done this way to have plausible deniability.
- alkonaut 9y ago
  The EU already forced e.g Microsoft to adapt to the European market. For example the "N" edition of Windows. I can't see how this feature would be any different. If Microsoft wants to sell windows here then it will have to conform. They could just leave the European market but it would be way more expensive. They could also just hide the fact that they aren't conforming to standards and hope it's not discovered or leaked. The fines would be ridiculous (and ask VW whether it's a good idea).
  - cabalamat 9y ago
    > If Microsoft wants to sell windows here then it will have to conform. Or say they are conforming but not doing so.
lmilcin 9y ago
While this is probably a step in a good direction, I would like to see EU enforcing companies to be responsible for the security of the products they are offering if they want to conduct business in EU states.
merricksb 9y ago
Earlier discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14592745 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14592745

118 points by janober 9y ago

Yet another reason to be sad about having my EU citizenship forcibly removed. The UK government want the exact opposite of this.

lloeki 9y ago
I can relate but complain all you want, it wasn't "forcibly" removed, it was democratically so.
- onion2k 9y ago
  democratically For a value of 'democratically' where billionaire media tycoons controlled the narrative.
  - hd4 9y ago
    Virtually-unknown tech companies too: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great...
  - reitanqild 9y ago
    And a lot of people you obviously didn't agree with. Can't say I supported neither Trump nor Brexit but at least I think I can see that it was democratic even if they weren't my choices: people were angry and scared and voted accordingly.
- Certhas 9y ago
  How not both? You are forced to comply with the law, even if it is democratically legitimized.
- collyw 9y ago
  When the voters were made promises about 350 million per week to the NHS, that was backtracked on within hours of the result, do you really consider it democratic?
  - krona 9y ago
    On the flip-side, we were also promised a punishment budget, higher interest rates and the end of western civilization. I think it's rather snooty of you to think that the plebs who didn't agree with you don't know how to distinguish fact from fiction.
    - collyw 9y ago
      Where did I say that I didn't agree with them? I am merely pointing out that the lies before the referendum made it pretty undemocratic.
- jamiethompson 9y ago
  Sure. You can argue that it was democratic, but I personally do not choose to lose my citizenship, therefore my citizenship is being taken from me, forcibly.
hd4 9y ago
Completely agree. I wonder when we are going to see whatever small tech/startup scene exists in the UK evaporate away into France/Germany/other-European-country and whether that will affect any policy change by this anti-tech government. Probably never. edit: I guess it's worth following on from that by asking what's the closest Euro equivalent to SV we currently have? I'm seriously considering France or Spain for a variety of reasons. Though I've heard Estonia is trying hard to become Europe's SV.
Joakal 9y ago
How did you get EU citizenship in the first place?
- esolyt 9y ago
  By being born in the UK.
mtgx 9y ago
I understand. But from my point of view, this may not have happened if the UK was still a member, as they would've forcefully pushed in the opposite direction. So I'm glad the UK is exiting before they can do any lasting damage to EU values. If the UK isn't happy with the Fundamental Charter of Rights of the EU, then it's free to pass its own "Bill of (Non-) Rights".
- krona 9y ago
  The UK is still a member of the EU.
- jamiethompson 9y ago
  The UK is still an active member of the EU. We haven't left yet.

cabalamat 9y ago

What will the EU do about operating systems developed outside the EU, such as MS Windows, iOS, or Android? If these contain a backdoor for the NSA, it is unlikely that the manufactureres will tell the EU that they do. Therefore if the EU is serious about this (and it should be), it should develop its own operating systems, and mandate them for all enterprises that store personal or sensitive data (which means all enterprises). Doing this, while necessary, is not sufficient to stop backdoors, because they could be implemented at the hardware level. Many chips are manufactured in the far east, and China is a state that may be hostile to the EU in future. So the EU needs all chips to be designed and manufactured on its own soil, if it wants digital independence.

ginko 9y ago
I guess they could sue the hell out of any company that is revealed to have an NSA backdoor.
- chopin 9y ago
  You mean like the companies which have been sued for selling ridiculously vulnerable routers which have been compromised for years by the CIA? It's done this way to have plausible deniability.
alkonaut 9y ago
The EU already forced e.g Microsoft to adapt to the European market. For example the "N" edition of Windows. I can't see how this feature would be any different. If Microsoft wants to sell windows here then it will have to conform. They could just leave the European market but it would be way more expensive. They could also just hide the fact that they aren't conforming to standards and hope it's not discovered or leaked. The fines would be ridiculous (and ask VW whether it's a good idea).
- cabalamat 9y ago
  > If Microsoft wants to sell windows here then it will have to conform. Or say they are conforming but not doing so.

lmilcin 9y ago

While this is probably a step in a good direction, I would like to see EU enforcing companies to be responsible for the security of the products they are offering if they want to conduct business in EU states.

merricksb 9y ago

Earlier discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14592745 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14592745