5 ms·

Parliamentary systems in general are more responsive than Presidential ones. Also, most of us EU nationals don't see EU structures as very democratically respo

Parliamentary systems in general are more responsive than Presidential ones. Also, most of us EU nationals don't see EU structures as very democratically responsive. Fairly sure most of us only send the B Team to the EU parliament. E.g retired national politicians, or people who couldn't get elected for national parliaments. Also, it gets a lot less coverage than national parliaments, so members are free to vote on random things without the same amount of scrutiny.

forgottenacc57 9y ago
Other countries primary concern is to give big business and the rich anything they want.
jopsen 9y ago
Yeah, the EU works surprisingly well... I mean given how little attention it gets the EU institutions makes a lot of good calls. Granted, it would likely change it more controversial topics was handled by EU.
- krylon 9y ago
  OTOH, sometimes national governments will try establish policies at the EU level that they know will be unpopular at home, so can face their voters and claim they don't really want this, but look, that evil EU makes us. That was how the data retention laws were established before the European Court of Justice decided that it was illegal/unconstitutional (unsure what term to use here).
NetStrikeForce 9y ago
> most of us EU nationals don't see EU structures as very democratically responsive. Whilst I got the same feeling, this really needs to be backed up by data. Do you know any reliable polls about it?
- jrimbault 9y ago
  The recent elections (last year or so) in Europe showed a great deal of anti-EU feelings from some parts of the population.
  - NetStrikeForce 9y ago
    Op said "most of EU nationals". You say "a great deal" - but I can't really put that into numbers. "Most" means >51% but "a great deal" is just what I call (please don't get offense) bullshit-speak. I have asked for numbers and the elections in different European countries this and last year did not show majorities of anti-EU feelings. Netherlands, France, Austria, Spain, ... am I missing something? The fact is only Greece has a majority that dislikes the EU (I'd say for obvious reasons). Not even the UK is polling that way right now.
    - secfirstmd 9y ago
      Yes I think it's also about which part of the EU. The majority seem to support the EU as a whole but some of the political structures like the Parliament and Commission - less so. "Since 2012, there has been a steady increase in Parliament of the fight against terrorism and respect for individual freedoms as a priority policy for the European Parliament, and this is now in second place (42%, +8 compared with 2015). Meanwhile, some other indicators remain relatively unchanged. A clear majority of Europeans still believe that being a member of the European Union is a good thing (53%, -2), and that their country has benefitted from this membership (60%, =). Likewise, around seven respondents in ten think that there is more solidarity amongst Europeans than issues which separate them (71%, -3). Nearly one European in two also shares the opinion that a harmonised social welfare system reinforces their feeling of being a European citizen (46%, +1). We also noted that the neutral image which Europeans have of the European Parliament (44%, -2), and the more significant role which they want to see it play (46%, +2), are two indicators which also remain stable. In addition, Europeans remain well informed about the European Parliament. Finally, other results show a decline in this survey. For example, Europeans feel that their voice counts less and less, both at national and at European level. However, in 26 of the 28 Member States, they felt that their voice counts more in their own country (53% in average, -10 compared with 2015) than at EU level (37% in average, -2). When asked about the future situation, Europeans are increasingly pessimistic, both in the EU (54% « things are going in the wrong direction », +13 compared with 2015) and in their own country (58% « id. », +14), Among the various elements of European identity, a significant decline in the single currency as one of the essential elements is also noticeable (33%, -6), particularly in the Euro area." Source: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/atyourservice/en/20161110PVL00113/Parlemeter-2016 http://www.europarl.europa.eu/atyourservice/en/20161110PVL00...
jacquesm 9y ago
> Fairly sure most of us only send the B Team to the EU parliament. E.g retired national politicians, or people who couldn't get elected for national parliaments. I wouldn't call 'retired national politicians' the 'B' team, those are more likely the 'A' team, no longer worried about their career they are much freer to operate than their national counterparts, besides that they have lots of experience. A Dutch example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neelie_Kroes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neelie_Kroes
- barrkel 9y ago
  Neelie isn't an MEP. MEPs don't have much power, so ambitious people aren't interested, so the B team gets sent, and then nobody wants to give them much more responsibility.
  - smhg 9y ago
    Neelie was indeed not an example of a MEP (read different comments in parent-parent-parent's thread for distinction). But there are definitely examples of driven 'A' team politicians in the EP. And those are more easily heard because of the lack of attention to the laid back types. So the possible higher amount of the latter isn't even an all black-white bad thing. And since many are positive about the results of the EP: does it even matter?
- gambiting 9y ago
  The current president of the European Council, Donald Tusk, used to be the Polish Prime minister before he took the position in Brussels. Definitely not B team.
  - secfirstmd 9y ago
    Yes the European Council and European Commission tend to get the more experienced and capable former national politicians but the Parliament generally doesn't...Certainly not in the European countries that I have lived, worked and studied in/about.

forgottenacc57 9y ago

Other countries primary concern is to give big business and the rich anything they want.

jopsen 9y ago

Yeah, the EU works surprisingly well... I mean given how little attention it gets the EU institutions makes a lot of good calls. Granted, it would likely change it more controversial topics was handled by EU.

krylon 9y ago
OTOH, sometimes national governments will try establish policies at the EU level that they know will be unpopular at home, so can face their voters and claim they don't really want this, but look, that evil EU makes us. That was how the data retention laws were established before the European Court of Justice decided that it was illegal/unconstitutional (unsure what term to use here).

NetStrikeForce 9y ago

> most of us EU nationals don't see EU structures as very democratically responsive. Whilst I got the same feeling, this really needs to be backed up by data. Do you know any reliable polls about it?

jrimbault 9y ago
The recent elections (last year or so) in Europe showed a great deal of anti-EU feelings from some parts of the population.
- NetStrikeForce 9y ago
  Op said "most of EU nationals". You say "a great deal" - but I can't really put that into numbers. "Most" means >51% but "a great deal" is just what I call (please don't get offense) bullshit-speak. I have asked for numbers and the elections in different European countries this and last year did not show majorities of anti-EU feelings. Netherlands, France, Austria, Spain, ... am I missing something? The fact is only Greece has a majority that dislikes the EU (I'd say for obvious reasons). Not even the UK is polling that way right now.
  - secfirstmd 9y ago
    Yes I think it's also about which part of the EU. The majority seem to support the EU as a whole but some of the political structures like the Parliament and Commission - less so. "Since 2012, there has been a steady increase in Parliament of the fight against terrorism and respect for individual freedoms as a priority policy for the European Parliament, and this is now in second place (42%, +8 compared with 2015). Meanwhile, some other indicators remain relatively unchanged. A clear majority of Europeans still believe that being a member of the European Union is a good thing (53%, -2), and that their country has benefitted from this membership (60%, =). Likewise, around seven respondents in ten think that there is more solidarity amongst Europeans than issues which separate them (71%, -3). Nearly one European in two also shares the opinion that a harmonised social welfare system reinforces their feeling of being a European citizen (46%, +1). We also noted that the neutral image which Europeans have of the European Parliament (44%, -2), and the more significant role which they want to see it play (46%, +2), are two indicators which also remain stable. In addition, Europeans remain well informed about the European Parliament. Finally, other results show a decline in this survey. For example, Europeans feel that their voice counts less and less, both at national and at European level. However, in 26 of the 28 Member States, they felt that their voice counts more in their own country (53% in average, -10 compared with 2015) than at EU level (37% in average, -2). When asked about the future situation, Europeans are increasingly pessimistic, both in the EU (54% « things are going in the wrong direction », +13 compared with 2015) and in their own country (58% « id. », +14), Among the various elements of European identity, a significant decline in the single currency as one of the essential elements is also noticeable (33%, -6), particularly in the Euro area." Source: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/atyourservice/en/20161110PVL00113/Parlemeter-2016 http://www.europarl.europa.eu/atyourservice/en/20161110PVL00...

jacquesm 9y ago

> Fairly sure most of us only send the B Team to the EU parliament. E.g retired national politicians, or people who couldn't get elected for national parliaments. I wouldn't call 'retired national politicians' the 'B' team, those are more likely the 'A' team, no longer worried about their career they are much freer to operate than their national counterparts, besides that they have lots of experience. A Dutch example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neelie_Kroes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neelie_Kroes

barrkel 9y ago
Neelie isn't an MEP. MEPs don't have much power, so ambitious people aren't interested, so the B team gets sent, and then nobody wants to give them much more responsibility.
- smhg 9y ago
  Neelie was indeed not an example of a MEP (read different comments in parent-parent-parent's thread for distinction). But there are definitely examples of driven 'A' team politicians in the EP. And those are more easily heard because of the lack of attention to the laid back types. So the possible higher amount of the latter isn't even an all black-white bad thing. And since many are positive about the results of the EP: does it even matter?
gambiting 9y ago
The current president of the European Council, Donald Tusk, used to be the Polish Prime minister before he took the position in Brussels. Definitely not B team.
- secfirstmd 9y ago
  Yes the European Council and European Commission tend to get the more experienced and capable former national politicians but the Parliament generally doesn't...Certainly not in the European countries that I have lived, worked and studied in/about.