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> the webpack book Holy shit, I thought you were kidding. We're at a point where the bundler, one of a dozen elements required for a 'barebones' modern js app

> the webpack book Holy shit, I thought you were kidding. We're at a point where the bundler, one of a dozen elements required for a 'barebones' modern js application, needs a book. I'm finding it hard to find motivation to do any kind of web based side projects these days because they inevitably begin with 'which combination of latest and greatest libraries do I need to spend an entire day wiring up before I can do hello world this time?'. Someone make this madness end. Modern javascript tooling makes 90s C++ look pretty pleasant.

baystep 9y ago
Have you ever tried Gulp? Honestly I had the same feeling with webpack, I like it for my "professional" day job project that's grown to huge size and webpack can chop through it quickly; but for side projects, probably not. Then I found gulp. Uses a more functional streaming style, but for the end goal of [Turn ES6 into ES5]->[Stick it in this folder] it's dead simple and quick.
positivecomment 9y ago
JavaScript is trying to get rid of the script! https://www.manning.com/books/java-development-with-ant https://www.manning.com/books/java-development-with-ant
Sacho 9y ago
I think your hyperbole is unwarranted; if you're building a "hello world" application, you don't need to use a bundler, or any of the "latest and greatest libraries". Pick tools which you are comfortable with and which solve problems you actually have. Otherwise, you'll be left complaining about some vague "community" that is "forcing" you to adopt the "modern standard", even though there's nothing "standard" about the apps this "community" develops as a whole.
- susw 9y ago
  Hello World is only your first test case to get all the tooling up and running. The real work starts after Hello World and is expected to become more complex. Within minutes you will grow tired of manually running transpilers, minifiers, tests, adding each new js module to index.html etc. You will want to automate all of this. At least this is my experience every time I start a new project.
manigandham 9y ago
You can write a book about anything and it's also a great way to learn so not sure why that is an issue. webpack does a lot so it requires lots of knowledge -- or you could just stick to script tags and basic minifiers built into every server side web framework at this point. npm (or yarn) for downloading dependencies + webpack to squeeze them into a bundle makes for a very powerful combination if you need it and it takes a few mins at most to setup. Why the hyperbole if you don't understand it?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- bicubic 9y ago
  > takes a few mins at most to setup Now there's hyperbole. Let's be honest. Unless you do it for a living, at best it takes a few hours to set up boilerplate for any modern js project today. And let's also be honest that es6 is a must today and script tags are not an option until browser es6 support is ubiquitous. Last project I set up, grunt and browserify were the thing. You were an idiot if you weren't using them. Apparently now it's webpack and gulp. In another year it'll be some other crap. The first step to dealing with a problem is admitting there is one. I'm not sure labeling comments that highlight the problem 'hyperbole' is constructive in any way.
  - cygned 9y ago
    I work with JavaScript and related technologies every day and I am still annoyed to setup new projects because if half a year had passed, everything seems to be different - especially in the React ecosystem (at least from my POV).
    - kbody 9y ago
      Exactly, I think one reason why this trend hasn't stopped while most of the fellow devs I know are sick of it, is that JS attracts a lot of new devs. Being new they start developing on JS/React, but they don't have the painful experience and thus have more tolerance until they too get sick of it and try to keep things minimal, but then more new devs start which fuel the never-ending circle. In the end it's not the new devs' fault of course, but rather the lib authors who don't treat their software as something that needs to be stable among other things. Personally I try to KISS, but unfortunately on work I have to deal with this mess.
owebmaster 9y ago
If you look at Engineering books, you will find this kind of book more often than one that teaches you how to construct a dam.
douche 9y ago
It's bullshit. I'm half tempted to go back to make and just cat'ing JS files together. It was so much faster, easier, and it wasn't always constantly broken.
_Codemonkeyism 9y ago
Make did always have books, like http://www.oreilly.com/openbook/make3/book/index.csp http://www.oreilly.com/openbook/make3/book/index.csp
Cthulhu_ 9y ago
> Someone make this madness end. Angular, React and Polymer are hiding the complexity of modern JS app building behind their own CLI, so it's literally down to 'angular build --prod' or 'npm run build'.

baystep 9y ago

Have you ever tried Gulp? Honestly I had the same feeling with webpack, I like it for my "professional" day job project that's grown to huge size and webpack can chop through it quickly; but for side projects, probably not. Then I found gulp. Uses a more functional streaming style, but for the end goal of [Turn ES6 into ES5]->[Stick it in this folder] it's dead simple and quick.

positivecomment 9y ago

JavaScript is trying to get rid of the script! https://www.manning.com/books/java-development-with-ant https://www.manning.com/books/java-development-with-ant

Sacho 9y ago

I think your hyperbole is unwarranted; if you're building a "hello world" application, you don't need to use a bundler, or any of the "latest and greatest libraries". Pick tools which you are comfortable with and which solve problems you actually have. Otherwise, you'll be left complaining about some vague "community" that is "forcing" you to adopt the "modern standard", even though there's nothing "standard" about the apps this "community" develops as a whole.

susw 9y ago
Hello World is only your first test case to get all the tooling up and running. The real work starts after Hello World and is expected to become more complex. Within minutes you will grow tired of manually running transpilers, minifiers, tests, adding each new js module to index.html etc. You will want to automate all of this. At least this is my experience every time I start a new project.

manigandham 9y ago

You can write a book about anything and it's also a great way to learn so not sure why that is an issue. webpack does a lot so it requires lots of knowledge -- or you could just stick to script tags and basic minifiers built into every server side web framework at this point. npm (or yarn) for downloading dependencies + webpack to squeeze them into a bundle makes for a very powerful combination if you need it and it takes a few mins at most to setup. Why the hyperbole if you don't understand it?

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
bicubic 9y ago
> takes a few mins at most to setup Now there's hyperbole. Let's be honest. Unless you do it for a living, at best it takes a few hours to set up boilerplate for any modern js project today. And let's also be honest that es6 is a must today and script tags are not an option until browser es6 support is ubiquitous. Last project I set up, grunt and browserify were the thing. You were an idiot if you weren't using them. Apparently now it's webpack and gulp. In another year it'll be some other crap. The first step to dealing with a problem is admitting there is one. I'm not sure labeling comments that highlight the problem 'hyperbole' is constructive in any way.
- cygned 9y ago
  I work with JavaScript and related technologies every day and I am still annoyed to setup new projects because if half a year had passed, everything seems to be different - especially in the React ecosystem (at least from my POV).
  - kbody 9y ago
    Exactly, I think one reason why this trend hasn't stopped while most of the fellow devs I know are sick of it, is that JS attracts a lot of new devs. Being new they start developing on JS/React, but they don't have the painful experience and thus have more tolerance until they too get sick of it and try to keep things minimal, but then more new devs start which fuel the never-ending circle. In the end it's not the new devs' fault of course, but rather the lib authors who don't treat their software as something that needs to be stable among other things. Personally I try to KISS, but unfortunately on work I have to deal with this mess.

owebmaster 9y ago

If you look at Engineering books, you will find this kind of book more often than one that teaches you how to construct a dam.

douche 9y ago

It's bullshit. I'm half tempted to go back to make and just cat'ing JS files together. It was so much faster, easier, and it wasn't always constantly broken.

_Codemonkeyism 9y ago

Make did always have books, like http://www.oreilly.com/openbook/make3/book/index.csp http://www.oreilly.com/openbook/make3/book/index.csp

Cthulhu_ 9y ago

> Someone make this madness end. Angular, React and Polymer are hiding the complexity of modern JS app building behind their own CLI, so it's literally down to 'angular build --prod' or 'npm run build'.