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I have been expecting death of Symbian for a while. It existed for when all phone software sucked big time. Not anymore. There is android + iphone and symbian h

by Aegean 16y ago

I have been expecting death of Symbian for a while. It existed for when all phone software sucked big time. Not anymore. There is android + iphone and symbian has no chance there. The problem is symbian is clunky. The UI looks old and boring. It is slow, it is written in C++ with complicated interfaces. Not great software for a limited device like a phone. Its also worth noting that it is not only Symbian, but Nokia's conservative and limited vision on innovation.

blub 16y ago
Actually, Symbian is great for limited power devices like phones. It's a real-time OS that has a long history of running on weaker hardware. Consider that most new Symbian phones have an ARM processor clocked at ~400mhz (the fastest have a 600Mhz CPU) and have 128MB of memory. This has a big impact on price, Symbian devices are (much) cheaper than the iPhone/Android devices. The problems you are complaining about are connected to the UI, which indeed is no match for the UI of the iPhone or even Android. Even so, Symbian will make for a great middle-level and low-level OS. Due to the low hardware requirements Nokia can lower the prices and offer longer battery lives.
- wvenable 16y ago
  There is no future in software designed for limited CPU and low memory. Moore's law all but ensures that it'll be completely irrelevant. Symbian was designed for even weaker devices than I used when I developed for it years ago. As a developer, you're dealing with technology designed for hardware that simply doesn't exist anymore. When you have enough hardware to deliver what people want (like a full web browser) you have enough hardware for a decent OS.
  - hcho 16y ago
    Only that batteries don't tend to obey Moore's law. All other being equal, a smaller battery means not only lower BOM but also more freedom in physical desings of the devices.Not everyone likes to have a device size of a brick. The UI offerings of manufacturers are converging to not being a differentiator. When that point is reached the war will go on how well your software manages the limited resources.
    - wvenable 16y ago
      > Only that batteries don't tend to obey Moore's law. My current smartphone is massively more powerful than my old Symbian smartphone and gets better battery life as well (and is smaller). We've seen massive gains in the power consumption of components inside computers and phones. > When that point is reached the war will go on how well your software manages the limited resources. That's never been true. Nokia is losing the smartphone market to a company that ported their desktop OS to a phone! The original Palm OS is no more because it was designed for devices of the day, not for devices of the future. What is considered "limited resources" changes daily and it doesn't matter how well your OS handles them if nobody bothers to write software for it.
  - davidw 16y ago
    > There is no future in software designed for limited CPU and low memory Uh, what do you think the whole "embedded" thing is? What happens is that things get cheap enough that they tend to find new uses. For example, in the phone world, making more features available to the phones that billions of not so wealthy people in China, India and Africa might aspire to own.
    - wvenable 16y ago
      > For example, in the phone world, making more features available to the phones that billions of not so wealthy people in China, India and Africa might aspire to own. Except the software doesn't get any cheaper. The whole argument is that Symbian is hard to develop for because it's designed for hardware that frankly doesn't exist anymore. The software is more expensive. Android is cheaper for other manufacturers to use than Symbian is for Nokia.
      - davidw 16y ago
        > hardware that frankly doesn't exist anymore That is simply not true. Nokia still churns out tons of phones that don't even run Symbian, but S40, which is another step down. And they sell like hotcakes, too, even if the profit margins aren't huge. And they'll continue to sell well for the immediate future. Clearly, Nokia has lost its grip on "the future" and isn't very competitive with things like Android and the iPhone, but to deny that the biggest chunk of the cell phone market exists is a bit absurd.
        wvenable 16y ago
        Yes, they sell mobile phones -- devices that make calls with an address book. The biggest selling feature of these devices is that don't do anything else. However, A smartphone that doesn't do anything else isn't very smart. Where's the market for Symbian here?
        davidw 16y ago
        The phones capable of running Symbian, but not so capable of running heavier systems like Android, will get cheaper, and thus be able to reach a broader market, or new niches.
- Aegean 16y ago
  OK I agree that on low-end phones probably symbian has perfected its place over the years. But probably they run a simplified version on low-end ones. The high-end version is non-intuitive.
somebear 16y ago
Believing in the death of Symbian is very premature. It has been years where the series 30 platform has been on its deathbed, but it is still being developed actively, and there are still products being produced on it. Now that Symbian is being pushed down in segmentation by Meego, it is getting closer to oblivion, but I'll have to see it before I believe it.
nijikunai 16y ago
>There is android + iphone and symbian has no chance there. I'm not sure about other countries, but here in India it's exactly the opposite. Though iphone and android are steadily increasing in mindshare. >Not great software for a limited device like a phone. Not everyone buys a phone for apps, most people (atleast here) look for better voice clarity/battery life/multimedia capabilities rather than apps. >Nokia's conservative and limited vision on innovation. I think "slow" is the correct word here.

by Aegean 16y ago

blub 16y ago

Actually, Symbian is great for limited power devices like phones. It's a real-time OS that has a long history of running on weaker hardware. Consider that most new Symbian phones have an ARM processor clocked at ~400mhz (the fastest have a 600Mhz CPU) and have 128MB of memory. This has a big impact on price, Symbian devices are (much) cheaper than the iPhone/Android devices. The problems you are complaining about are connected to the UI, which indeed is no match for the UI of the iPhone or even Android. Even so, Symbian will make for a great middle-level and low-level OS. Due to the low hardware requirements Nokia can lower the prices and offer longer battery lives.

wvenable 16y ago
There is no future in software designed for limited CPU and low memory. Moore's law all but ensures that it'll be completely irrelevant. Symbian was designed for even weaker devices than I used when I developed for it years ago. As a developer, you're dealing with technology designed for hardware that simply doesn't exist anymore. When you have enough hardware to deliver what people want (like a full web browser) you have enough hardware for a decent OS.
- hcho 16y ago
  Only that batteries don't tend to obey Moore's law. All other being equal, a smaller battery means not only lower BOM but also more freedom in physical desings of the devices.Not everyone likes to have a device size of a brick. The UI offerings of manufacturers are converging to not being a differentiator. When that point is reached the war will go on how well your software manages the limited resources.
  - wvenable 16y ago
    > Only that batteries don't tend to obey Moore's law. My current smartphone is massively more powerful than my old Symbian smartphone and gets better battery life as well (and is smaller). We've seen massive gains in the power consumption of components inside computers and phones. > When that point is reached the war will go on how well your software manages the limited resources. That's never been true. Nokia is losing the smartphone market to a company that ported their desktop OS to a phone! The original Palm OS is no more because it was designed for devices of the day, not for devices of the future. What is considered "limited resources" changes daily and it doesn't matter how well your OS handles them if nobody bothers to write software for it.
- davidw 16y ago
  > There is no future in software designed for limited CPU and low memory Uh, what do you think the whole "embedded" thing is? What happens is that things get cheap enough that they tend to find new uses. For example, in the phone world, making more features available to the phones that billions of not so wealthy people in China, India and Africa might aspire to own.
  - wvenable 16y ago
    > For example, in the phone world, making more features available to the phones that billions of not so wealthy people in China, India and Africa might aspire to own. Except the software doesn't get any cheaper. The whole argument is that Symbian is hard to develop for because it's designed for hardware that frankly doesn't exist anymore. The software is more expensive. Android is cheaper for other manufacturers to use than Symbian is for Nokia.
    - davidw 16y ago
      > hardware that frankly doesn't exist anymore That is simply not true. Nokia still churns out tons of phones that don't even run Symbian, but S40, which is another step down. And they sell like hotcakes, too, even if the profit margins aren't huge. And they'll continue to sell well for the immediate future. Clearly, Nokia has lost its grip on "the future" and isn't very competitive with things like Android and the iPhone, but to deny that the biggest chunk of the cell phone market exists is a bit absurd.
      - wvenable 16y ago
        Yes, they sell mobile phones -- devices that make calls with an address book. The biggest selling feature of these devices is that don't do anything else. However, A smartphone that doesn't do anything else isn't very smart. Where's the market for Symbian here?
        davidw 16y ago
        The phones capable of running Symbian, but not so capable of running heavier systems like Android, will get cheaper, and thus be able to reach a broader market, or new niches.
Aegean 16y ago
OK I agree that on low-end phones probably symbian has perfected its place over the years. But probably they run a simplified version on low-end ones. The high-end version is non-intuitive.

somebear 16y ago

Believing in the death of Symbian is very premature. It has been years where the series 30 platform has been on its deathbed, but it is still being developed actively, and there are still products being produced on it. Now that Symbian is being pushed down in segmentation by Meego, it is getting closer to oblivion, but I'll have to see it before I believe it.

nijikunai 16y ago

>There is android + iphone and symbian has no chance there. I'm not sure about other countries, but here in India it's exactly the opposite. Though iphone and android are steadily increasing in mindshare. >Not great software for a limited device like a phone. Not everyone buys a phone for apps, most people (atleast here) look for better voice clarity/battery life/multimedia capabilities rather than apps. >Nokia's conservative and limited vision on innovation. I think "slow" is the correct word here.