4 ms·

I think what you are getting at with "'white' is not an ethnicity" is that in post WW II United States culture, white is the default ethnicity. Earlier, say in

I think what you are getting at with "'white' is not an ethnicity" is that in post WW II United States culture, white is the default ethnicity. Earlier, say in pre WW I USA, white Anglo-Saxon Protestant was the default, and Irish, Italian, Eastern European, Catholics, were the "other" discriminated aganst and looked down on by those of default ethnicity. (Note that these are over-generalizations that might not be true for any particular individual).

erikpukinskis 9y ago
Yes, "default ethnicity" might be a better term for what I am referencing than "white". Thank you.
- agumonkey 9y ago
  To me what you hint at is that since the 15th century, europeans were into the imperialism race. They were the most recent and largest default ethnic group.
- anigbrowl 9y ago
  While it's totally understandable once one looks into the historical context and notes similar patterns in other non-caucasian cultures, the use of the term 'white' in this context has become so confusing and problematic as to perpetuate the very problems it's trying to identify. Unfortunately a lot of the obvious alternatives are similarly problematic, and I haven't been able to think of a good novel one. My favorite term is 'authoritarian' but 6-syllable words are also a good way to lose a large part of your potential audience :-/
agumonkey 9y ago
It's worth researching, and indeed 50+ years ago, other communities were scapegoats. How and why these shifts is important.
dragonwriter 9y ago
If you look historically, “white” was still the label of the default ethnicity, but people that today we'd think of as “white” (and who would fit the use of “white” as a racial identifier, as in fact Hispanics quite often do) simply are not thought of as “white”, but rather as some distinct ethnicity.
Houshalter 9y ago
I think that white people don't usually identify as being white. Minorities will identify as being their ethnicity. Like it's a tribe they belong to. They will mention it when they describe themselves. They sometimes form groups around it and say they are "proud to be X". Most white people don't identify by their race any more than by their hair color. Their first identity is often to their country or their city.
- tptacek 9y ago
  "White" people routinely identify themselves as Italians, Polish, Irish, or Germans. They have parades! They're very well attended! The Irish even have a holiday. Black people do indeed identify themselves as "black", and not "Igbo" or "Yoruba" or "Zulu". But there's a reason for that: "black", in the sense of "African American", is an ethnicity we created, by kidnapping millions of people and stripping them of their original culture. Most "black" people in the US share a common culture and linguistic tradition, one that happens to have been created here. So it makes sense that there is "black pride" and "Irish pride" but not "white pride". Of those three groups, "white" is not really an ethnicity.
  - Houshalter 9y ago
    In the past that may have been true. At least in my experience most white people don't even know their country of origin, and if they do it's really not that big of a deal. Ethnic festivals and holidays mostly just continue on as tradition now. They aren't signs of seriously separate cultures. You can't tell whether someone is Irish by how they talk, by how they dress, who they hang around, etc. The fact they are Irish is not an important part of their identity at all. These separate white cultures have mostly melted together over time into just "American culture".

erikpukinskis 9y ago

Yes, "default ethnicity" might be a better term for what I am referencing than "white". Thank you.

agumonkey 9y ago
To me what you hint at is that since the 15th century, europeans were into the imperialism race. They were the most recent and largest default ethnic group.
anigbrowl 9y ago
While it's totally understandable once one looks into the historical context and notes similar patterns in other non-caucasian cultures, the use of the term 'white' in this context has become so confusing and problematic as to perpetuate the very problems it's trying to identify. Unfortunately a lot of the obvious alternatives are similarly problematic, and I haven't been able to think of a good novel one. My favorite term is 'authoritarian' but 6-syllable words are also a good way to lose a large part of your potential audience :-/

agumonkey 9y ago

It's worth researching, and indeed 50+ years ago, other communities were scapegoats. How and why these shifts is important.

dragonwriter 9y ago

If you look historically, “white” was still the label of the default ethnicity, but people that today we'd think of as “white” (and who would fit the use of “white” as a racial identifier, as in fact Hispanics quite often do) simply are not thought of as “white”, but rather as some distinct ethnicity.

Houshalter 9y ago

I think that white people don't usually identify as being white. Minorities will identify as being their ethnicity. Like it's a tribe they belong to. They will mention it when they describe themselves. They sometimes form groups around it and say they are "proud to be X". Most white people don't identify by their race any more than by their hair color. Their first identity is often to their country or their city.

tptacek 9y ago
"White" people routinely identify themselves as Italians, Polish, Irish, or Germans. They have parades! They're very well attended! The Irish even have a holiday. Black people do indeed identify themselves as "black", and not "Igbo" or "Yoruba" or "Zulu". But there's a reason for that: "black", in the sense of "African American", is an ethnicity we created, by kidnapping millions of people and stripping them of their original culture. Most "black" people in the US share a common culture and linguistic tradition, one that happens to have been created here. So it makes sense that there is "black pride" and "Irish pride" but not "white pride". Of those three groups, "white" is not really an ethnicity.
- Houshalter 9y ago
  In the past that may have been true. At least in my experience most white people don't even know their country of origin, and if they do it's really not that big of a deal. Ethnic festivals and holidays mostly just continue on as tradition now. They aren't signs of seriously separate cultures. You can't tell whether someone is Irish by how they talk, by how they dress, who they hang around, etc. The fact they are Irish is not an important part of their identity at all. These separate white cultures have mostly melted together over time into just "American culture".