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Whoa! We got to Godwin super fast this time. Please re-read what I wrote and consider that I might have the best intentions to explore a discussion with HN.

Whoa! We got to Godwin super fast this time. Please re-read what I wrote and consider that I might have the best intentions to explore a discussion with HN. Note also that I discussed the nature of securing the data and not its compilation. Note that IMO several European countries forfeit some freedoms that I consider valuable and critical for democracy. IMO it is your right to observe the world as it is and note what you observe. Yes, I understand that this right conflicts with privacy and find it an extremely unfortunate consequence, especially given the emerging power of AI. However I think that it's also possible find people culpable for evil intent of a compilation, though difficult to prove.

anigbrowl 9y ago
Don't try to negate his point with a Godwin flag. This is not about you or your posting intentions; it's a fact that data like this can and has been used for precisely such purposes in many instances. Yeah yeah, that'snot what you are about, but citing your own comfy idealism to avoid dealing with unpleasant realities is exactly the mechanism that political bad actors seek to exploit.
arianvanp 9y ago
It's not an attack at you personally. The contrary. But I noticed that a lot of comments found this kind of data collection 'normal'. and apparently in the US this is very much legal. And I as a person find this very troubling, because in Europe these kind of decisions caused a Genocide, which is a result that should not be taken lightly. Do you really want the RNC to collect religious information about all 200 million voters? What happpens if this information falls into wrong hands (in our case it was Nazi's). You just handed someone a potential 200 million long hit list. So yes it went Godwin quickly, but it is the painful truth.
- bryondowd 9y ago
  I'm no expert on the subject, so feel free to set me straight. It seem to me, though, that this is a bit like cargo culting. An association between some part of a process and the result that doesn't factor in the big picture. More specifically, wouldn't the presence of such lists have proven a minor and nonessential part of the genocide? If the Nazis didn't have those lists, would they have just thrown up their hands and went away? It seems they'd have just gathered the information by the usual 'everyone accusing his neighbor' witch-hunt means, with people using it to settle grudges or other nefarious reasons. Maybe it would be less accurate, and maybe a little slower, but ultimately, you'd probably have about the same amount of bloodshed, I would expect. The real keys to these situations are a powerful group with ill intent and a population that is at least willing to condone it. If those are in place, the list doesn't really matter, and if they aren't in place, the list doesn't really matter. So why does the list matter? Note, this is an invitation to enlighten me, not a firm belief on my part.

anigbrowl 9y ago

Don't try to negate his point with a Godwin flag. This is not about you or your posting intentions; it's a fact that data like this can and has been used for precisely such purposes in many instances. Yeah yeah, that'snot what you are about, but citing your own comfy idealism to avoid dealing with unpleasant realities is exactly the mechanism that political bad actors seek to exploit.

arianvanp 9y ago

It's not an attack at you personally. The contrary. But I noticed that a lot of comments found this kind of data collection 'normal'. and apparently in the US this is very much legal. And I as a person find this very troubling, because in Europe these kind of decisions caused a Genocide, which is a result that should not be taken lightly. Do you really want the RNC to collect religious information about all 200 million voters? What happpens if this information falls into wrong hands (in our case it was Nazi's). You just handed someone a potential 200 million long hit list. So yes it went Godwin quickly, but it is the painful truth.

bryondowd 9y ago
I'm no expert on the subject, so feel free to set me straight. It seem to me, though, that this is a bit like cargo culting. An association between some part of a process and the result that doesn't factor in the big picture. More specifically, wouldn't the presence of such lists have proven a minor and nonessential part of the genocide? If the Nazis didn't have those lists, would they have just thrown up their hands and went away? It seems they'd have just gathered the information by the usual 'everyone accusing his neighbor' witch-hunt means, with people using it to settle grudges or other nefarious reasons. Maybe it would be less accurate, and maybe a little slower, but ultimately, you'd probably have about the same amount of bloodshed, I would expect. The real keys to these situations are a powerful group with ill intent and a population that is at least willing to condone it. If those are in place, the list doesn't really matter, and if they aren't in place, the list doesn't really matter. So why does the list matter? Note, this is an invitation to enlighten me, not a firm belief on my part.