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I like it. I've been thinking for a while that old-school forums are actually fundamentally superior to chatrooms for sharing important information and having i

I like it. I've been thinking for a while that old-school forums are actually fundamentally superior to chatrooms for sharing important information and having in depth discussions. In my opinion the chat model is simply bad for effectively distributing useful information because it disappears in the noise. Perhaps what's needed is a combination of the forum-style threaded conversation model for information sharing and work conversations and a chat room which is explicitly for the water-cooler stuff, so that people don't have to be always-on (and constantly interrupted). It should be safe to turn off when you need to focus.

ryanmarsh 9y ago
I disagree. It takes all kinds. There isn't one right way for people who work together to communicate. Real time messaging solves a specific set of needs but is not the end-all be-all. Threaded more thoughtful forum style communication is important too, it's much better than email for that sort of thing. Email is also important for what it's best at. Work communication isn't a technology problem as much as it's a human problem. Just off the top of my head here are a few types of communication that need to happen at work. In modern work we can assume not everyone can be in the same physical space. * solve an important problem right now * find consensus on a complicated problem where opinions vary and emotions run strong * info everyone needs to be aware of now * info only a few people need to be aware of now * info that might be of use within some time horizon for few or all * relationship/trust building (small talk, gossip) don't dismiss the value of this one
underwater 9y ago
It's called Facebook Workplace. Balance of Messenger for immediate communication, groups for threaded conversations, and feed for discovery.
- mkohlmyr 9y ago
  I don't think I've really heard much about that product since the announcement. Is it good? And are accounts tied to Facebook proper? That would turn me off completely.
  - tonylucas 9y ago
    Disclaimer: Workplace Partner @ Job I was cynical about it to begin with, when it was just 'Facebook at Work' but I do believe it addresses a lot of the issues brought up in the blog post and the Workplace team are executing very well. Accounts are completely separate from Facebook, no crossover at all. I don't think it's a Slack killer, as they both solve different problems in different ways, and Workplace is very much a 'big co, top down' approach. I do think other existing collaboration tools have a lot to be worried about between Slack & Workplace though. Last stat I heard was there is over 14k companies using it.
    - mkohlmyr 9y ago
      Sounds pretty decent! Would be interested in trying it if my employer didn't roll its own team chat for this purpose. Maybe Slack should be worried too. They may have a tough road ahead growing into the valuation between Facebook Workplace, Microsoft Teams, Atlassian HipChat and Amazon Chime.
      - tcbawo 9y ago
        Cisco also has a product called Spark which has integration with their videoconferencing equipment.
    - djrogers 9y ago
      > Accounts are completely separate from Facebook, no crossover at all. This was the claim that was made when we tried out FB@W, but shortly after I created my work account (I don't have a personal account) my wife started getting friend suggestions for coworkers of mine she's never met. I never even used my @work account for looking at her FB account, wasn't friended to her, etc. I think it was either a) harder to undo all the creepiness, or b) they didn't want to.
- pmlnr 9y ago
  No, no, no, no. Unsearchable monster. Yes, I need to use it.
fiatjaf 9y ago
I used to think that too and even began to write something like that. But what happens if something important accidentally is discussed on the chat? Right, someone has to move it to the sticky "forum" part of the app. That is complicated.
- mkohlmyr 9y ago
  I'm sure it's not dead simple, but that doesn't mean it's worse by any stretch. On further thought I wonder how much of the problem I have with slack and similar services (of which I actually tangentially happen to work on one) is more of a problem with process and expectations than anything else. 1. You are expected to be on chat, otherwise you suffer the appearance of not working - counter-productive since you are now subject to distracting notifications. If do-not-disturb settings and turning off notifications wasn't frowned upon this might be less of an issue. 2. Important information should be distributed through a more persistent second channel, email or a web-viewable email-list may actually be suitable.
davidw 9y ago
> old-school forums Most open source projects still use mailing lists, which are even better than forums in that everyone can read and write emails in whatever client they prefer. And yes, it's far better than chat for serious discussions, with a global group of people. You don't want to exclude the Americans from important decisions when everyone in Europe is awake and on the chat in the morning, and vice versa. I think both systems have their places - if I have a quick question, chat is usually better. For longer more serious discussions, perhaps with code included, email wins.
- accountyaccount 9y ago
  Generally I've found that any forum project that also doesn't include reply-by-email functionality is a waste of time.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- bahjoite 9y ago
  Mailing lists are close to perfect; one missing feature from mailing list software is the ability to easily reach back in time to discover threads from before one joined a project. For quick questions and discussions, irc is hard to beat.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    It's not hard to provide an archive, both in website and in mbox formats. There are multiple free tools available.
  - Bjartr 9y ago
    > one missing feature from mailing list software is the ability to easily reach back in time to discover threads from before one joined a project. I must be missing something, I've always found mailing list UIs frustrating to navigate and explore. Does anyone maybe have a primer on how to get the most out mailing lists for someone not already intricately familiar with them?
  - 9y ago
davidbanham 9y ago
I think the same thing. I had a hell of a time trying to move a company from Slack to Discourse though. People really love the UI/UX of Slack, even more than they hate the information overload.

ryanmarsh 9y ago

I disagree. It takes all kinds. There isn't one right way for people who work together to communicate. Real time messaging solves a specific set of needs but is not the end-all be-all. Threaded more thoughtful forum style communication is important too, it's much better than email for that sort of thing. Email is also important for what it's best at. Work communication isn't a technology problem as much as it's a human problem. Just off the top of my head here are a few types of communication that need to happen at work. In modern work we can assume not everyone can be in the same physical space. * solve an important problem right now * find consensus on a complicated problem where opinions vary and emotions run strong * info everyone needs to be aware of now * info only a few people need to be aware of now * info that might be of use within some time horizon for few or all * relationship/trust building (small talk, gossip) don't dismiss the value of this one

underwater 9y ago

It's called Facebook Workplace. Balance of Messenger for immediate communication, groups for threaded conversations, and feed for discovery.

mkohlmyr 9y ago
I don't think I've really heard much about that product since the announcement. Is it good? And are accounts tied to Facebook proper? That would turn me off completely.
- tonylucas 9y ago
  Disclaimer: Workplace Partner @ Job I was cynical about it to begin with, when it was just 'Facebook at Work' but I do believe it addresses a lot of the issues brought up in the blog post and the Workplace team are executing very well. Accounts are completely separate from Facebook, no crossover at all. I don't think it's a Slack killer, as they both solve different problems in different ways, and Workplace is very much a 'big co, top down' approach. I do think other existing collaboration tools have a lot to be worried about between Slack & Workplace though. Last stat I heard was there is over 14k companies using it.
  - mkohlmyr 9y ago
    Sounds pretty decent! Would be interested in trying it if my employer didn't roll its own team chat for this purpose. Maybe Slack should be worried too. They may have a tough road ahead growing into the valuation between Facebook Workplace, Microsoft Teams, Atlassian HipChat and Amazon Chime.
    - tcbawo 9y ago
      Cisco also has a product called Spark which has integration with their videoconferencing equipment.
  - djrogers 9y ago
    > Accounts are completely separate from Facebook, no crossover at all. This was the claim that was made when we tried out FB@W, but shortly after I created my work account (I don't have a personal account) my wife started getting friend suggestions for coworkers of mine she's never met. I never even used my @work account for looking at her FB account, wasn't friended to her, etc. I think it was either a) harder to undo all the creepiness, or b) they didn't want to.
pmlnr 9y ago
No, no, no, no. Unsearchable monster. Yes, I need to use it.

fiatjaf 9y ago

I used to think that too and even began to write something like that. But what happens if something important accidentally is discussed on the chat? Right, someone has to move it to the sticky "forum" part of the app. That is complicated.

mkohlmyr 9y ago
I'm sure it's not dead simple, but that doesn't mean it's worse by any stretch. On further thought I wonder how much of the problem I have with slack and similar services (of which I actually tangentially happen to work on one) is more of a problem with process and expectations than anything else. 1. You are expected to be on chat, otherwise you suffer the appearance of not working - counter-productive since you are now subject to distracting notifications. If do-not-disturb settings and turning off notifications wasn't frowned upon this might be less of an issue. 2. Important information should be distributed through a more persistent second channel, email or a web-viewable email-list may actually be suitable.

davidw 9y ago

> old-school forums Most open source projects still use mailing lists, which are even better than forums in that everyone can read and write emails in whatever client they prefer. And yes, it's far better than chat for serious discussions, with a global group of people. You don't want to exclude the Americans from important decisions when everyone in Europe is awake and on the chat in the morning, and vice versa. I think both systems have their places - if I have a quick question, chat is usually better. For longer more serious discussions, perhaps with code included, email wins.

accountyaccount 9y ago
Generally I've found that any forum project that also doesn't include reply-by-email functionality is a waste of time.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
bahjoite 9y ago
Mailing lists are close to perfect; one missing feature from mailing list software is the ability to easily reach back in time to discover threads from before one joined a project. For quick questions and discussions, irc is hard to beat.
- icebraining 9y ago
  It's not hard to provide an archive, both in website and in mbox formats. There are multiple free tools available.
- Bjartr 9y ago
  > one missing feature from mailing list software is the ability to easily reach back in time to discover threads from before one joined a project. I must be missing something, I've always found mailing list UIs frustrating to navigate and explore. Does anyone maybe have a primer on how to get the most out mailing lists for someone not already intricately familiar with them?
- 9y ago

davidbanham 9y ago

I think the same thing. I had a hell of a time trying to move a company from Slack to Discourse though. People really love the UI/UX of Slack, even more than they hate the information overload.