7 ms·

I thought it was well-known that marijuana use among adolescents was a risk factor for schizophrenia. I'm 100% for legalization, but no drug is ever completely

I thought it was well-known that marijuana use among adolescents was a risk factor for schizophrenia. I'm 100% for legalization, but no drug is ever completely safe. I had to talk a friend down from a nasty paranoid dissociation episode after she ate the recommended dose of a mass-produced legal pot cookie in Seattle. It's a hell of a lot safer than alcohol, IMO, but that's not the same thing as "safe".

Hydraulix989 9y ago
Yes, I've had friends who've had similar experiences after ingesting edibles. Yes, there is some element of responsibility when it comes to consumption (nothing in life is risk-free), but it's not to the point where it should be considered illegal, to say nothing of the ruined lives caused by having a bunch of non-violent offenders run through our judicial system because they "got high."
- PhasmaFelis 9y ago
  Absolutely. The best solution in my mind is legalization and education. That's why it pisses me off when people spread the story that it's 100% harmless--you can't be a responsible user if you don't know the facts, positive and negative.
whiddershins 9y ago
I think it is psychotic breaks you could be referring to. Schizophrenia is its own thing.
- PhasmaFelis 9y ago
  The studies I've seen connect schizophrenia with marijuana use in young people. My friend's episode may be something else; it hasn't recurred despite ongoing occasional use, and she hasn't shown any other signs of schizophrenia that I'd recognize.
gehwartzen 9y ago
Kind of a side thought but we have kind of a strange cultural definition of what constitutes a drug. There are plenty of common foods which have physiological and neurological affects.
- WillPostForFood 9y ago
  Really, all foods have physiological and neurological effects. I wouldn't say the cultural definition of what constitutes a drug is strange, more like it has a very large grey area. The more more tangible the effect, or the more synthetic, the more likely it is people would call it a drug. You could probably get most people to agree caffeine is a drug, you'd have a harder time with sugar.
  - kofejnik 9y ago
    ... which seems very un-logical to me, since sugar addiction is quite real and quite bad for your health, unlike caffeine
    - virtualwhys 9y ago
      Having recently (3 months ago) stopped a 20 year daily coffee habit, I would be inclined to say that caffeine is not at all good for your health. Just the stress on the heart and nervous system alone is enough to offset any supposed benefit (from this perspective I'd say there are none, it's just getting hopped up on another drug, albeit a very much culturally accepted one in most parts of the world). Concentrated sugars taken in on a regular basis are also harmful to one's health. I guess live like the ancients (i.e. before alcohol, coffee, tabacco, white sugar, etc. came into being) is a pretty good recipe for optimal health.
      - circlefavshape 9y ago
        "Daily coffee habit"? How much coffee per day?
        9y ago
kakarot 9y ago
> I thought it was well-known that marijuana use among adolescents was a risk factor for schizophrenia. Incorrect. Those predisposed to schizophrenic and some other mental disorders are more likely to have those symptoms aggravated by chronic drug use. Pot doesn't create mental illness, it exacerbates it. The lesson here is not to smoke weed in your developing teen years, or to experiment in a safe environment if there is a history of schizophrenia in your family, something that should be a no-brainer. "Safe" is a very relative word and a substance can only be as safe as the person consuming it. Incorrect safety procedure when ingesting a substance, such as taking drugs without proper dosage experimentation or in unstable environments, should not be held against the substance itself.
- mercer 9y ago
  > > I thought it was well-known that marijuana use among adolescents was a risk factor for schizophrenia. > Incorrect. Those predisposed to schizophrenic and some other mental disorders are more likely to have those symptoms aggravated by chronic drug use. Pot doesn't create mental illness, it exacerbates it. Aren't both these statements a bit too one-sided in light of the evidence? As far as I'm aware we know there's a correlation, but there's no consensus about causality either way (although I lean towards weed being mostly harmless in itself, and 'triggering' if you happen to be susceptible to schizophrenia).
  - kakarot 9y ago
    Get a group of scizophrenics together and get them to smoke weed. You'll have a few people whose symptoms are helped but you'll find more of them get triggered and may end up having an episode. As I said, weed doesn't cause schizophrenia, it just exacerbates the symptoms in some people. I don't see what is one-sided about that and there is plenty of literature to support this, if you search around for a minute or two.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- PhasmaFelis 9y ago
  Exactly. You seem to be under the misapprehension that I disagree with you.
Broken_Hippo 9y ago
Like others have said, if you are already disposed to have a psychiatric problem - especially one that includes episodes of psychosis - pot is likely to make the problem come to the forefront. To be fair, there are a lot of other things that can cause the same - stress, for example. A lot of major mental illnesses start when folks are in their late teens or early-to-mid 20's as well, making the timing of such experimentation coordinate with the disease onset. Doesn't mean one causes the other, though. More that one can (but doesn't always) bring out some of the symptoms. It surely isn't enough of a link to ban it for that reason, unless we want to ban things like stress, which can also bring on symptoms if you have the "right" setup for it.
- Omnius 9y ago
  This is dangerous though because then the reaction is always "oh well yeah they must have been redisposed" with no real evidence other than hear say. It was a side effect, a bad one, that requires more study. This thinking though will lead to "I am fine this won't happen to me" and it could and people should know that.
  - Broken_Hippo 9y ago
    This is exactly why we need factual drug education prudent age restrictions where legal (drinking age = smoking age), and the normalization of affordable psychiatric checkups and basic information about mental health. Factual drug information would include these warnings, plus giving lots of folks information about what to do if it should happen. Prudent age limits - ones that can be enforced reasonably - help folks know themselves a bit more before they try it out. Psychiatric care being normal can help catch a few folks along the way, and knowing what to do (per the drug education) hopefully means more folks get help. It won't stop the "I am fine, it won't happen to me" sort of thinking, but this sort of thing can prevent a bit of it and change the outcome of it.
egypturnash 9y ago
I'm pretty sure "got scary high off an edible and went into the paranoid disassociation place" is a rite of stoner passage, tbh. I've sure been there myself.
- mercer 9y ago
  Absolutely, but I can totally see how that can be dangerous for a particular minds (whether it's underlying problems or just the 'type' of mind). This is one reason why I avoid psychedelics. I'm waiting for a 'right' moment, and would really like to experience it, but I figure I better err on the side of caution when it comes to my mind.

Hydraulix989 9y ago

Yes, I've had friends who've had similar experiences after ingesting edibles. Yes, there is some element of responsibility when it comes to consumption (nothing in life is risk-free), but it's not to the point where it should be considered illegal, to say nothing of the ruined lives caused by having a bunch of non-violent offenders run through our judicial system because they "got high."

PhasmaFelis 9y ago
Absolutely. The best solution in my mind is legalization and education. That's why it pisses me off when people spread the story that it's 100% harmless--you can't be a responsible user if you don't know the facts, positive and negative.

whiddershins 9y ago

I think it is psychotic breaks you could be referring to. Schizophrenia is its own thing.

PhasmaFelis 9y ago
The studies I've seen connect schizophrenia with marijuana use in young people. My friend's episode may be something else; it hasn't recurred despite ongoing occasional use, and she hasn't shown any other signs of schizophrenia that I'd recognize.

gehwartzen 9y ago

Kind of a side thought but we have kind of a strange cultural definition of what constitutes a drug. There are plenty of common foods which have physiological and neurological affects.

WillPostForFood 9y ago
Really, all foods have physiological and neurological effects. I wouldn't say the cultural definition of what constitutes a drug is strange, more like it has a very large grey area. The more more tangible the effect, or the more synthetic, the more likely it is people would call it a drug. You could probably get most people to agree caffeine is a drug, you'd have a harder time with sugar.
- kofejnik 9y ago
  ... which seems very un-logical to me, since sugar addiction is quite real and quite bad for your health, unlike caffeine
  - virtualwhys 9y ago
    Having recently (3 months ago) stopped a 20 year daily coffee habit, I would be inclined to say that caffeine is not at all good for your health. Just the stress on the heart and nervous system alone is enough to offset any supposed benefit (from this perspective I'd say there are none, it's just getting hopped up on another drug, albeit a very much culturally accepted one in most parts of the world). Concentrated sugars taken in on a regular basis are also harmful to one's health. I guess live like the ancients (i.e. before alcohol, coffee, tabacco, white sugar, etc. came into being) is a pretty good recipe for optimal health.
    - circlefavshape 9y ago
      "Daily coffee habit"? How much coffee per day?
      - 9y ago

kakarot 9y ago

> I thought it was well-known that marijuana use among adolescents was a risk factor for schizophrenia. Incorrect. Those predisposed to schizophrenic and some other mental disorders are more likely to have those symptoms aggravated by chronic drug use. Pot doesn't create mental illness, it exacerbates it. The lesson here is not to smoke weed in your developing teen years, or to experiment in a safe environment if there is a history of schizophrenia in your family, something that should be a no-brainer. "Safe" is a very relative word and a substance can only be as safe as the person consuming it. Incorrect safety procedure when ingesting a substance, such as taking drugs without proper dosage experimentation or in unstable environments, should not be held against the substance itself.

mercer 9y ago
> > I thought it was well-known that marijuana use among adolescents was a risk factor for schizophrenia. > Incorrect. Those predisposed to schizophrenic and some other mental disorders are more likely to have those symptoms aggravated by chronic drug use. Pot doesn't create mental illness, it exacerbates it. Aren't both these statements a bit too one-sided in light of the evidence? As far as I'm aware we know there's a correlation, but there's no consensus about causality either way (although I lean towards weed being mostly harmless in itself, and 'triggering' if you happen to be susceptible to schizophrenia).
- kakarot 9y ago
  Get a group of scizophrenics together and get them to smoke weed. You'll have a few people whose symptoms are helped but you'll find more of them get triggered and may end up having an episode. As I said, weed doesn't cause schizophrenia, it just exacerbates the symptoms in some people. I don't see what is one-sided about that and there is plenty of literature to support this, if you search around for a minute or two.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
PhasmaFelis 9y ago
Exactly. You seem to be under the misapprehension that I disagree with you.

Broken_Hippo 9y ago

Like others have said, if you are already disposed to have a psychiatric problem - especially one that includes episodes of psychosis - pot is likely to make the problem come to the forefront. To be fair, there are a lot of other things that can cause the same - stress, for example. A lot of major mental illnesses start when folks are in their late teens or early-to-mid 20's as well, making the timing of such experimentation coordinate with the disease onset. Doesn't mean one causes the other, though. More that one can (but doesn't always) bring out some of the symptoms. It surely isn't enough of a link to ban it for that reason, unless we want to ban things like stress, which can also bring on symptoms if you have the "right" setup for it.

Omnius 9y ago
This is dangerous though because then the reaction is always "oh well yeah they must have been redisposed" with no real evidence other than hear say. It was a side effect, a bad one, that requires more study. This thinking though will lead to "I am fine this won't happen to me" and it could and people should know that.
- Broken_Hippo 9y ago
  This is exactly why we need factual drug education prudent age restrictions where legal (drinking age = smoking age), and the normalization of affordable psychiatric checkups and basic information about mental health. Factual drug information would include these warnings, plus giving lots of folks information about what to do if it should happen. Prudent age limits - ones that can be enforced reasonably - help folks know themselves a bit more before they try it out. Psychiatric care being normal can help catch a few folks along the way, and knowing what to do (per the drug education) hopefully means more folks get help. It won't stop the "I am fine, it won't happen to me" sort of thinking, but this sort of thing can prevent a bit of it and change the outcome of it.

egypturnash 9y ago

I'm pretty sure "got scary high off an edible and went into the paranoid disassociation place" is a rite of stoner passage, tbh. I've sure been there myself.

mercer 9y ago
Absolutely, but I can totally see how that can be dangerous for a particular minds (whether it's underlying problems or just the 'type' of mind). This is one reason why I avoid psychedelics. I'm waiting for a 'right' moment, and would really like to experience it, but I figure I better err on the side of caution when it comes to my mind.