4 ms·

There was always something cringeworthy about the deferential and meek actors representing the warrior race that almost exterminated humanity (Minbari) [only to

There was always something cringeworthy about the deferential and meek actors representing the warrior race that almost exterminated humanity (Minbari) [only to become it's best buddy]. The bizarre chain-smoking accent of the lead actor (Sheridan) and general mediocre out-of-place acting made the show a cringefest for me (Londo/Peter Jurasik being a notable exception). TNG/DS9, while often quite dull, was still much more compelling because it was more cerebral and subtle in contrast.

jonathonf 9y ago
> There was always something cringeworthy about the deferential and meek actors representing the warrior race that almost exterminated humanity (Minbari) That would be down to the three-caste system (warrior, worker, religious). Personally I didn't have an issue with the way even the religious caste were portrayed - peace-loving but fearsome when wronged. _Spoilers_ I mean, the entire Human-Minbari war was down to a misinterpretation (about open gun ports) - and revenge, of course. The fact that Delenn was religious caste makes her initiation of the war even more poignant.
throwanem 9y ago
I don't really want to help you resuscitate this particar long-dead sf fan holy war. But "deferential and meek"? Really? Minbari aren't portrayed with an in-your-face style of conflict very often - with one notable exception that informs the entire story - but they're involved in conflict aplenty. I get that the show's a bit camp, especially now that technology has advanced by leaps and bounds to make B5's then-groundbreaking CGI work really show its age. But yours isn't a fair or accurate description of its qualities. In particular, I'm not sure how you can support a claim that B5 is less "cerebral and subtle" than TNG, a show whose writers never met a clumsy, ham-fisted moral browbeating they didn't like - DS9 has more to recommend it in that regard, I agree - but compared to a show with five-year-long plot arcs, with events in the first few episodes literally paying off years later, and with influences and references drawn from a range broad enough to encompass Tolkien, World War I, Bester, philosophy and political theory from Hume and Locke to Nietzsche and Carlyle, Jewish mysticism, Christian theology, Olaf Stapledon, A Canticle for Leibowitz, and that's just off the top of my head...honestly, where are you getting this?
- tnecniv 9y ago
  Heck, Harlan Ellison was also a contributing writing!
  - throwanem 9y ago
    An excellent point! Ellison's sole Trek outing, "The City on the Edge of Forever", is considered by many to be the franchise's finest hour; in addition to writing for B5, he also served as a creative consultant and even contributed voice work to one episode.
- wcarss 9y ago
  Can you elaborate on the Canticle for Leibowitz connection? Not doubt motivating me, just curiosity as I've never made the connection and enjoyed both works.
  - db48x 9y ago
    The last episode of Season 4; I believe it's called Deconstruction of Falling Stars.

jonathonf 9y ago

> There was always something cringeworthy about the deferential and meek actors representing the warrior race that almost exterminated humanity (Minbari) That would be down to the three-caste system (warrior, worker, religious). Personally I didn't have an issue with the way even the religious caste were portrayed - peace-loving but fearsome when wronged. _Spoilers_ I mean, the entire Human-Minbari war was down to a misinterpretation (about open gun ports) - and revenge, of course. The fact that Delenn was religious caste makes her initiation of the war even more poignant.

throwanem 9y ago

I don't really want to help you resuscitate this particar long-dead sf fan holy war. But "deferential and meek"? Really? Minbari aren't portrayed with an in-your-face style of conflict very often - with one notable exception that informs the entire story - but they're involved in conflict aplenty. I get that the show's a bit camp, especially now that technology has advanced by leaps and bounds to make B5's then-groundbreaking CGI work really show its age. But yours isn't a fair or accurate description of its qualities. In particular, I'm not sure how you can support a claim that B5 is less "cerebral and subtle" than TNG, a show whose writers never met a clumsy, ham-fisted moral browbeating they didn't like - DS9 has more to recommend it in that regard, I agree - but compared to a show with five-year-long plot arcs, with events in the first few episodes literally paying off years later, and with influences and references drawn from a range broad enough to encompass Tolkien, World War I, Bester, philosophy and political theory from Hume and Locke to Nietzsche and Carlyle, Jewish mysticism, Christian theology, Olaf Stapledon, A Canticle for Leibowitz, and that's just off the top of my head...honestly, where are you getting this?

tnecniv 9y ago
Heck, Harlan Ellison was also a contributing writing!
- throwanem 9y ago
  An excellent point! Ellison's sole Trek outing, "The City on the Edge of Forever", is considered by many to be the franchise's finest hour; in addition to writing for B5, he also served as a creative consultant and even contributed voice work to one episode.
wcarss 9y ago
Can you elaborate on the Canticle for Leibowitz connection? Not doubt motivating me, just curiosity as I've never made the connection and enjoyed both works.
- db48x 9y ago
  The last episode of Season 4; I believe it's called Deconstruction of Falling Stars.