4 ms·

Looks interesting, but it sounds crazy expensive and very proprietary, though I could be wrong about the expensive part. I do really like the vector/scalar man

by lowkey 16y ago

Looks interesting, but it sounds crazy expensive and very proprietary, though I could be wrong about the expensive part. I do really like the vector/scalar manipulation syntax, but this project is crying out for an open source alternative - anyone game? Wikipedia has more on K and KDB+: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K_(programming_language) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K_(programming_language)

BMarkmann 16y ago
Expensive, yes. Proprietary, yes. Open source alternative: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_(programming_language) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_(programming_language) Although, like I said... most k programming is done in the context of applications built on top of kdb (their in-memory datastore), and I don't believe there's an (open-source) J equivalent.
- plinkplonk 16y ago
  "Open source alternative: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_(programming_language) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_(programming_language) Is J Open Source? Last time I looked it wasn't. From the web site "Jsoftware licenses source for all the Jsoftware binaries. There are several factors in determining the cost of source licenses. Primary is the source itself: J Engine (portable C); Windows GUI support (C++); and Unix GUI support (Java). Secondary is the scope of use: internal; distributed products; and competitive (to Jsoftware) products. And finally the platforms: Windows; Unix; PocketPC; etc. The price range is from $10,000 to $400,000. Regular updates to our current source levels are available for separate update fees."
  - silentbicycle 16y ago
    The source for version 7 of J is available (circa 1993). I can't seem to find a link to it, but I have a local copy. My contact info is in my profile - I'll try to find the official mirror of it. I was able to get j7 to build on OpenBSD (with a bit of tweaking), FWIW. K/Q seem to be much more my style, but I haven't had any success there. To be honest, I'm more curious about how they're implemented, though - I may do my own eventually.
    - Fixnum 16y ago
      J7 source code: http://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/apl_archives/j/early_j/src/ http://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/apl_archives/j/early_j/src/
      - silentbicycle 16y ago
        Salute.
silentbicycle 16y ago
J (http://jsoftware.com/ http://jsoftware.com/) is also an option. It's not open source, either, but older versions of the source are available (j7, IIRC), and there isn't a restriction on commercial use. I'm still trying to figure out the APL language family. I'd love to implement one, eventually, but it's a ways off. (I've done a toy interpreter already, but that was just to make sense of some basics.)
- BMarkmann 16y ago
  For anyone not familiar with the APL family of languages, prepare to have your mind blown: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9xAKttWgP4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9xAKttWgP4 Terse, cryptic, powerful. It's like doing magic tricks with code. (Not that that's a recipe for maintainable software, but that's an entirely different debate.) There's also (meant to mention this before) A+, which is GPL, I believe: http://www.aplusdev.org/ http://www.aplusdev.org/
  - silentbicycle 16y ago
    I spent most of a Saturday morning picking apart the prototype J interpreter (http://www.nsl.com/papers/origins.htm http://www.nsl.com/papers/origins.htm) with GDB, which convinced me there was something deep there. I've read most of _J for C Programmers_, and, this week, I also got _APL: An Interactive Approach_. The mindset is starting to make a lot of sense. (I've also looked at A+, but I'd rather stick to the ASCII variants.)
    - chl 16y ago
      A+ has an ASCII mode, activate w/: $mode ascii For a mapping between ASCII tokens and APL glyphs, see: - http://www.vector.org.uk/aflat/tutor/index.htm http://www.vector.org.uk/aflat/tutor/index.htm - http://www.aplusdev.org/APlusRefV2_15.html#HEADING349 http://www.aplusdev.org/APlusRefV2_15.html#HEADING349
      - silentbicycle 16y ago

by lowkey 16y ago

BMarkmann 16y ago

Expensive, yes. Proprietary, yes. Open source alternative: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_(programming_language) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_(programming_language) Although, like I said... most k programming is done in the context of applications built on top of kdb (their in-memory datastore), and I don't believe there's an (open-source) J equivalent.

plinkplonk 16y ago
"Open source alternative: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_(programming_language) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_(programming_language) Is J Open Source? Last time I looked it wasn't. From the web site "Jsoftware licenses source for all the Jsoftware binaries. There are several factors in determining the cost of source licenses. Primary is the source itself: J Engine (portable C); Windows GUI support (C++); and Unix GUI support (Java). Secondary is the scope of use: internal; distributed products; and competitive (to Jsoftware) products. And finally the platforms: Windows; Unix; PocketPC; etc. The price range is from $10,000 to $400,000. Regular updates to our current source levels are available for separate update fees."
- silentbicycle 16y ago
  The source for version 7 of J is available (circa 1993). I can't seem to find a link to it, but I have a local copy. My contact info is in my profile - I'll try to find the official mirror of it. I was able to get j7 to build on OpenBSD (with a bit of tweaking), FWIW. K/Q seem to be much more my style, but I haven't had any success there. To be honest, I'm more curious about how they're implemented, though - I may do my own eventually.
  - Fixnum 16y ago
    J7 source code: http://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/apl_archives/j/early_j/src/ http://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/apl_archives/j/early_j/src/
    - silentbicycle 16y ago
      Salute.

silentbicycle 16y ago

J (http://jsoftware.com/ http://jsoftware.com/) is also an option. It's not open source, either, but older versions of the source are available (j7, IIRC), and there isn't a restriction on commercial use. I'm still trying to figure out the APL language family. I'd love to implement one, eventually, but it's a ways off. (I've done a toy interpreter already, but that was just to make sense of some basics.)

BMarkmann 16y ago
For anyone not familiar with the APL family of languages, prepare to have your mind blown: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9xAKttWgP4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9xAKttWgP4 Terse, cryptic, powerful. It's like doing magic tricks with code. (Not that that's a recipe for maintainable software, but that's an entirely different debate.) There's also (meant to mention this before) A+, which is GPL, I believe: http://www.aplusdev.org/ http://www.aplusdev.org/
- silentbicycle 16y ago
  I spent most of a Saturday morning picking apart the prototype J interpreter (http://www.nsl.com/papers/origins.htm http://www.nsl.com/papers/origins.htm) with GDB, which convinced me there was something deep there. I've read most of _J for C Programmers_, and, this week, I also got _APL: An Interactive Approach_. The mindset is starting to make a lot of sense. (I've also looked at A+, but I'd rather stick to the ASCII variants.)
  - chl 16y ago
    A+ has an ASCII mode, activate w/: $mode ascii For a mapping between ASCII tokens and APL glyphs, see: - http://www.vector.org.uk/aflat/tutor/index.htm http://www.vector.org.uk/aflat/tutor/index.htm - http://www.aplusdev.org/APlusRefV2_15.html#HEADING349 http://www.aplusdev.org/APlusRefV2_15.html#HEADING349
    - silentbicycle 16y ago