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Despite the assurances from Facebook, I've seen no evidence that these policies help anything, and plenty of evidence that they cause problems. Here are a few t

Despite the assurances from Facebook, I've seen no evidence that these policies help anything, and plenty of evidence that they cause problems. Here are a few things that Facebook could answer that might help clear this up: 1. What specific kinds of abuses are primarily due to someone's name, and what percentage of total abuses do they constitute? 2. What criteria does Facebook use to determine if a name is "real"? 3. Under what authority can Facebook compel government issued identification to release suspensions on accounts that are "under review"? There are many more things that need to be answered, but having data points to answer those questions would be a fantastic start.

daveFNbuck 9y ago
Facebook can ask for identification under the same authority that you can ask to see someone's identification before letting them into your house.
- aestetix 9y ago
  The difference is that I'm not retaining any data when I do this, which opens the door to questions about data use and data retention. I've seen no statements from Facebook about how the data is used, how it is stored, and how long it is retained. Another difference is that Facebook suspends you when you are already using Facebook. The analogy would be more apt if you let someone into your house, they hung out for a few hours, and then you physically remove them, and don't let them back in unless they show you an ID.
  - daveFNbuck 9y ago
    Do you agree that you would have the authority to ask to take a picture of someone's identification before allowing them into your house?
    - aestetix 9y ago
      Do you agree that the person I ask has the right to know why I am asking for the ID, why I'm taking the photo, and what I plan to do with it?
      - daveFNbuck 9y ago
        You're free to ask Facebook that before providing your identification.
    - coldtea 9y ago
      Do you agree that a web service is not a private residence? A coffe shop, a supermarket, a bookstore, etc. doesn't have right to check your ID. Heck, from what I know, in the US even the police cannot ask you for an id without "reasonable suspicion" that you did something illegal.
      - freeflight 9y ago
        >Do you agree that a web service is not a private residence? For all purpose and effect, it equals a private residence. After all the web service is run by somebody on servers that somebody either owns or pays for. If I don't want you on my web service I have every right in the world not to let you in/use it because you have no right to demand usage of my private property (servers). >A coffe shop, a supermarket, a bookstore, etc. doesn't have right to check your ID. While I'm not 100% sure about the legal situation in the US, I'm pretty sure regular householder's rights apply. They have the right demand all kinds of things before allowing you on their private premises and you have the right to say "Nah" and not enter their private premises as a result of that, their club, their rules. >Heck, from what I know, in the US even the police cannot ask you for an id without "reasonable suspicion" that you did something illegal. In theory, the same was true for German police until... you guess it: 9/11 and the big push for the "war on terror" happened. Since then many countries have adopted additional legislation to allow police more "freedom" with ID checks. Germany adopted this by declaring certain zones as "higher risk", like near government buildings, public transportation hubs and so on. Police can demand ID from pretty much anybody in a certain radius to such zones, this process is then called "verdachtsunabhänge Personenkontrolle" which loosely translates to "identity check regardless of suspicion". I'm pretty sure the US has adopted similar legislation, just like the US (supposedly the country of the freest of free speech) adopted the usage of "Free speech zones".
        Tharkun 9y ago
        > While I'm not 100% sure about the legal situation in the US, I'm pretty sure regular householder's rights apply. Not sure about that. Some places (like malls or train stations, possibly others) are considered public places to some extent.
    - Asooka 9y ago
      I think you don't have that authority over here in Europe. I'll have to read our law for the protection of personal data again, but I know for a fact employers can't just ask to see your ID (to make sure you're who you say you are on your CV, etc.) without first showing you a document verifying that the way they store that data is in-line with said law. Pretty much the only ones who can see your ID without showing proof that they've been audited for their use of it, are the Police.
      - daveFNbuck 9y ago
        If the law describes what you have to do to legally ask to see someone's ID, doesn't that imply that you can legally ask to see someone's ID as long as you comply with the requirements?
      - Freak_NL 9y ago
        Employers are usually required by law to inspect your ID upon hiring you. There is no requirement to show any proof of audit. This is certainly the case in the Netherlands.
  - espes 9y ago
    > I've seen no statements from Facebook about how the data is used, how it is stored, and how long it is retained. https://www.facebook.com/help/1723057061256937 https://www.facebook.com/help/1723057061256937
    - aestetix 9y ago
      Oh wow, thanks. This must be new, I hadn't seen it before.
  - GhostVII 9y ago
    > The difference is that I'm not retaining any data when I do this But if your guests knew you were retaining their data, and still chose to go in your house and give you their ID, it would be perfectly fine to retain their data. > The analogy would be more apt if you let someone into your house, they hung out for a few hours, and then you physically remove them, and don't let them back in unless they show you an ID What's wrong with that?
- z3t4 9y ago
  i think facebook is more like public space. more like a club then a private home.
  - daveFNbuck 9y ago
    Clubs aren't public spaces. Clubs often require ID before they'll let you in.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

daveFNbuck 9y ago

Facebook can ask for identification under the same authority that you can ask to see someone's identification before letting them into your house.

aestetix 9y ago
The difference is that I'm not retaining any data when I do this, which opens the door to questions about data use and data retention. I've seen no statements from Facebook about how the data is used, how it is stored, and how long it is retained. Another difference is that Facebook suspends you when you are already using Facebook. The analogy would be more apt if you let someone into your house, they hung out for a few hours, and then you physically remove them, and don't let them back in unless they show you an ID.
- daveFNbuck 9y ago
  Do you agree that you would have the authority to ask to take a picture of someone's identification before allowing them into your house?
  - aestetix 9y ago
    Do you agree that the person I ask has the right to know why I am asking for the ID, why I'm taking the photo, and what I plan to do with it?
    - daveFNbuck 9y ago
      You're free to ask Facebook that before providing your identification.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    Do you agree that a web service is not a private residence? A coffe shop, a supermarket, a bookstore, etc. doesn't have right to check your ID. Heck, from what I know, in the US even the police cannot ask you for an id without "reasonable suspicion" that you did something illegal.
    - freeflight 9y ago
      >Do you agree that a web service is not a private residence? For all purpose and effect, it equals a private residence. After all the web service is run by somebody on servers that somebody either owns or pays for. If I don't want you on my web service I have every right in the world not to let you in/use it because you have no right to demand usage of my private property (servers). >A coffe shop, a supermarket, a bookstore, etc. doesn't have right to check your ID. While I'm not 100% sure about the legal situation in the US, I'm pretty sure regular householder's rights apply. They have the right demand all kinds of things before allowing you on their private premises and you have the right to say "Nah" and not enter their private premises as a result of that, their club, their rules. >Heck, from what I know, in the US even the police cannot ask you for an id without "reasonable suspicion" that you did something illegal. In theory, the same was true for German police until... you guess it: 9/11 and the big push for the "war on terror" happened. Since then many countries have adopted additional legislation to allow police more "freedom" with ID checks. Germany adopted this by declaring certain zones as "higher risk", like near government buildings, public transportation hubs and so on. Police can demand ID from pretty much anybody in a certain radius to such zones, this process is then called "verdachtsunabhänge Personenkontrolle" which loosely translates to "identity check regardless of suspicion". I'm pretty sure the US has adopted similar legislation, just like the US (supposedly the country of the freest of free speech) adopted the usage of "Free speech zones".
      - Tharkun 9y ago
        > While I'm not 100% sure about the legal situation in the US, I'm pretty sure regular householder's rights apply. Not sure about that. Some places (like malls or train stations, possibly others) are considered public places to some extent.
  - Asooka 9y ago
    I think you don't have that authority over here in Europe. I'll have to read our law for the protection of personal data again, but I know for a fact employers can't just ask to see your ID (to make sure you're who you say you are on your CV, etc.) without first showing you a document verifying that the way they store that data is in-line with said law. Pretty much the only ones who can see your ID without showing proof that they've been audited for their use of it, are the Police.
    - daveFNbuck 9y ago
      If the law describes what you have to do to legally ask to see someone's ID, doesn't that imply that you can legally ask to see someone's ID as long as you comply with the requirements?
    - Freak_NL 9y ago
      Employers are usually required by law to inspect your ID upon hiring you. There is no requirement to show any proof of audit. This is certainly the case in the Netherlands.
- espes 9y ago
  > I've seen no statements from Facebook about how the data is used, how it is stored, and how long it is retained. https://www.facebook.com/help/1723057061256937 https://www.facebook.com/help/1723057061256937
  - aestetix 9y ago
    Oh wow, thanks. This must be new, I hadn't seen it before.
- GhostVII 9y ago
  > The difference is that I'm not retaining any data when I do this But if your guests knew you were retaining their data, and still chose to go in your house and give you their ID, it would be perfectly fine to retain their data. > The analogy would be more apt if you let someone into your house, they hung out for a few hours, and then you physically remove them, and don't let them back in unless they show you an ID What's wrong with that?
z3t4 9y ago
i think facebook is more like public space. more like a club then a private home.
- daveFNbuck 9y ago
  Clubs aren't public spaces. Clubs often require ID before they'll let you in.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]