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None of the token sales I've seen are ponzi schemes. "Ponzi scheme" seems to be the buzzword used to describe any irrational or bubbly investment. It's incorrec

None of the token sales I've seen are ponzi schemes. "Ponzi scheme" seems to be the buzzword used to describe any irrational or bubbly investment. It's incorrect usage of the term.

AJRF 9y ago
You are categorically wrong about this. Ponzi schemes are financial frauds where, under the promise of high profits, users put their money, recovering their investment and interests only if enough users after them continue to invest money. Further to this, its qualatively provable, as you can look at the contracts and actually class the type of Ponzi scheme they are. * https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2017/06/01/2189634/its-not-just-a-ponzi-its-a-smart-ponzi/ https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2017/06/01/2189634/its-not-just-... https://stratechery.com/2017/tulips-myths-and-cryptocurrencies/ https://stratechery.com/2017/tulips-myths-and-cryptocurrenci... * https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.03779.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.03779.pdf
- Jabanga 9y ago
  You're quoting from the Birch-Kaminska circle, which has been bashing cryptocurrency since 2012. A ponzi scheme is where people pay a fee to join a scheme where members are guaranteed a payment that comes out of the membership fees paid by members that join after them. No token sale has given out payments, let alone guaranteed one. A speculative price gain is not a "ponzi scheme".
  - AJRF 9y ago
    So tell me, what is the goal of an ICO? And by extension, how do you ensure an ICO is successful?
    - Jabanga 9y ago
      Whatever the goal, unless they guarantee you a payment and fund that payment with membership fees paid by later entrants, it's not a ponzi scheme.
      - AJRF 9y ago
        What are you talking about membership fees? That isn't the criteria for all Ponzi schemes you know? You don't sound like you know what a Ponzi scheme is.
        Jabanga 9y ago
        It's you who doesn't know what a Ponzi scheme is. A Ponzi schemes requires new members to pay a fee to join. From Wikipedia: >is a fraudulent investment operation where the operator generates returns for older investors through revenue paid by new investors, rather than from legitimate business activities. The operator pays revenue to those who joined earlier with the fees received from those who joined later.
- dgacmu 9y ago
  The wikipedia article on Ponzi Schemes draws a fairly subtle distinction between a classical Ponzi schemes, economic bubbles, and pump-and-dump schemes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme Most ICOs seem more like pump-and-dump by that nomenclature, than like true Ponzi schemes, in which the Ponzi operator is directly involved in all of the transactions in and out of the system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_and_dump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_and_dump

None of the token sales I've seen are ponzi schemes. "Ponzi scheme" seems to be the buzzword used to describe any irrational or bubbly investment. It's incorrect usage of the term.

AJRF 9y ago

You are categorically wrong about this. Ponzi schemes are financial frauds where, under the promise of high profits, users put their money, recovering their investment and interests only if enough users after them continue to invest money. Further to this, its qualatively provable, as you can look at the contracts and actually class the type of Ponzi scheme they are. * https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2017/06/01/2189634/its-not-just-a-ponzi-its-a-smart-ponzi/ https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2017/06/01/2189634/its-not-just-... https://stratechery.com/2017/tulips-myths-and-cryptocurrencies/ https://stratechery.com/2017/tulips-myths-and-cryptocurrenci... * https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.03779.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.03779.pdf

Jabanga 9y ago
You're quoting from the Birch-Kaminska circle, which has been bashing cryptocurrency since 2012. A ponzi scheme is where people pay a fee to join a scheme where members are guaranteed a payment that comes out of the membership fees paid by members that join after them. No token sale has given out payments, let alone guaranteed one. A speculative price gain is not a "ponzi scheme".
- AJRF 9y ago
  So tell me, what is the goal of an ICO? And by extension, how do you ensure an ICO is successful?
  - Jabanga 9y ago
    Whatever the goal, unless they guarantee you a payment and fund that payment with membership fees paid by later entrants, it's not a ponzi scheme.
    - AJRF 9y ago
      What are you talking about membership fees? That isn't the criteria for all Ponzi schemes you know? You don't sound like you know what a Ponzi scheme is.
      - Jabanga 9y ago
        It's you who doesn't know what a Ponzi scheme is. A Ponzi schemes requires new members to pay a fee to join. From Wikipedia: >is a fraudulent investment operation where the operator generates returns for older investors through revenue paid by new investors, rather than from legitimate business activities. The operator pays revenue to those who joined earlier with the fees received from those who joined later.
dgacmu 9y ago
The wikipedia article on Ponzi Schemes draws a fairly subtle distinction between a classical Ponzi schemes, economic bubbles, and pump-and-dump schemes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme Most ICOs seem more like pump-and-dump by that nomenclature, than like true Ponzi schemes, in which the Ponzi operator is directly involved in all of the transactions in and out of the system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_and_dump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_and_dump