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David Birch has been bashing cryptocurrency since around 2012. It seriously goes that far back for some of these ideologues. Edit, just to give people an idea

David Birch has been bashing cryptocurrency since around 2012. It seriously goes that far back for some of these ideologues. Edit, just to give people an idea of where he's coming from ideologically, these are some of his comments that show the kind of world he wants to see: https://youtu.be/c8mdr8iwX20?t=6m49s https://youtu.be/c8mdr8iwX20?t=6m49s "law-abiding taxpayers like me are subsidizing criminals to use cash and not pay taxes" https://youtu.be/c8mdr8iwX20?t=10m47s https://youtu.be/c8mdr8iwX20?t=10m47s "so getting rid of cash has some other benefits which will lead to unexpected changes. For example for economists, getting rid of cash means that you lose the zero lower bound on interest rates. You can't have interest below zero because if you drop interest rates below zero people will just draw out the cash and just hold it. If you don't have cash you can have negative real interest rates. So getting rid of cash has a lot of benefits." https://youtu.be/c8mdr8iwX20?t=13m55s https://youtu.be/c8mdr8iwX20?t=13m55s "So if you allow us technologists to build the stuff so we build something like Bitcoin which let's pretend it's anonymous. Do you know what you get if you let us build that? You get a giant electronic Somalia. If you want to live in a society which is entirely driven by anonymous cash, where the rich aren't accountable anymore, where whoever's got the most money can be the warlord and do what they like, well that's what you're letting us build now" His demonization of cash remind me of this: "The cashless society – which more accurately should be called the bank-payments society – is often presented as an inevitability, an outcome of ‘natural progress’. This claim is either naïve or disingenuous. Any future cashless bank-payments society will be the outcome of a deliberate war on cash waged by an alliance of three elite groups with deep interests in seeing it emerge" https://aeon.co/essays/if-plastic-replaces-cash-much-that-is-good-will-be-lost https://aeon.co/essays/if-plastic-replaces-cash-much-that-is...

jpatokal 9y ago
Many ICOs out there are effectively Ponzi schemes, which are near-universally illegal.
- Jabanga 9y ago
  I don't think any of them are ponzi schemes. Shitty investment based on speculation and hype != illegal or ponzi scheme Bubbly sectors see irrational amounts of money thrown at things that have little underlying value, like Beanie Babies, or a token for a proposed protocol described by a two page whitepaper.
  - goldenkey 9y ago
    No, they are ponzi schemes because they aren't enforceable.
AJRF 9y ago
He is totally right about ICO's though. They are essentially Ponzi schemes as investors think the coins have value and that their initial investment is generating more value, but that is not what is happening.
- Jabanga 9y ago
  None of the token sales I've seen are ponzi schemes. "Ponzi scheme" seems to be the buzzword used to describe any irrational or bubbly investment. It's incorrect usage of the term.
  - AJRF 9y ago
    You are categorically wrong about this. Ponzi schemes are financial frauds where, under the promise of high profits, users put their money, recovering their investment and interests only if enough users after them continue to invest money. Further to this, its qualatively provable, as you can look at the contracts and actually class the type of Ponzi scheme they are. * https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2017/06/01/2189634/its-not-just-a-ponzi-its-a-smart-ponzi/ https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2017/06/01/2189634/its-not-just-... https://stratechery.com/2017/tulips-myths-and-cryptocurrencies/ https://stratechery.com/2017/tulips-myths-and-cryptocurrenci... * https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.03779.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.03779.pdf
    - Jabanga 9y ago
      You're quoting from the Birch-Kaminska circle, which has been bashing cryptocurrency since 2012. A ponzi scheme is where people pay a fee to join a scheme where members are guaranteed a payment that comes out of the membership fees paid by members that join after them. No token sale has given out payments, let alone guaranteed one. A speculative price gain is not a "ponzi scheme".
      - AJRF 9y ago
        So tell me, what is the goal of an ICO? And by extension, how do you ensure an ICO is successful?

jpatokal 9y ago

Many ICOs out there are effectively Ponzi schemes, which are near-universally illegal.

Jabanga 9y ago
I don't think any of them are ponzi schemes. Shitty investment based on speculation and hype != illegal or ponzi scheme Bubbly sectors see irrational amounts of money thrown at things that have little underlying value, like Beanie Babies, or a token for a proposed protocol described by a two page whitepaper.
- goldenkey 9y ago
  No, they are ponzi schemes because they aren't enforceable.

AJRF 9y ago

He is totally right about ICO's though. They are essentially Ponzi schemes as investors think the coins have value and that their initial investment is generating more value, but that is not what is happening.

Jabanga 9y ago
None of the token sales I've seen are ponzi schemes. "Ponzi scheme" seems to be the buzzword used to describe any irrational or bubbly investment. It's incorrect usage of the term.
- AJRF 9y ago
  You are categorically wrong about this. Ponzi schemes are financial frauds where, under the promise of high profits, users put their money, recovering their investment and interests only if enough users after them continue to invest money. Further to this, its qualatively provable, as you can look at the contracts and actually class the type of Ponzi scheme they are. * https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2017/06/01/2189634/its-not-just-a-ponzi-its-a-smart-ponzi/ https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2017/06/01/2189634/its-not-just-... https://stratechery.com/2017/tulips-myths-and-cryptocurrencies/ https://stratechery.com/2017/tulips-myths-and-cryptocurrenci... * https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.03779.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.03779.pdf
  - Jabanga 9y ago
    You're quoting from the Birch-Kaminska circle, which has been bashing cryptocurrency since 2012. A ponzi scheme is where people pay a fee to join a scheme where members are guaranteed a payment that comes out of the membership fees paid by members that join after them. No token sale has given out payments, let alone guaranteed one. A speculative price gain is not a "ponzi scheme".
    - AJRF 9y ago
      So tell me, what is the goal of an ICO? And by extension, how do you ensure an ICO is successful?