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HEADLINE: Lower barrier for contributors DESCRIPTION: Have a git repo for each package with a simple issue tracker, like GitHub/gitlab, a flow for accepting pu

by jopsen 9y ago

HEADLINE: Lower barrier for contributors DESCRIPTION: Have a git repo for each package with a simple issue tracker, like GitHub/gitlab, a flow for accepting pull-requests and automated CI. Also move away from message boards and IRC to more user friendly tools. Currently, it's too hard to report bugs, inspect debian source packages, propose fixes, etc. The overhead to making a simple contribution is too high. Note: this isn't a debian specific issue, many open source projects has old infrastructure.

voltagex_ 9y ago
You need some linebreaks in your post. This issue could be helped with some tactical updates to the Debian Wiki. I'm in two minds about IRC - I'd hate to see it disappear and go to something like Slack, but I understand it's a bit daunting. #debian-mentors on OFTC can help with contributions to Debian.
Ianp5a 9y ago
Yes. See that KDE makes this easy with bug reporting built in to applications and desktop tools.
- catdog 9y ago
  Debian has reportbug and reportbug-ng.
  - jopsen 9y ago
    I know that when I google an error code and somehow find a bug from debian it's always often obscure mailing list archive. If I google a docker error code, I often end up on a github issue.
    - kasabali 9y ago
      It is not Debian's fault that Google prioritizes ad ridden mailing list mirror links over the neat & clean bugs.debian.org pages.
RVuRnvbM2e 9y ago
The problem with a git repo for each package is that not every maintainer uses git.. I realise that integration could be better, but most of these things do already exist: CI: https://ci.debian.net/ https://ci.debian.net/ Tool for reporting bugs: reportbug (CLI) / reportbug-ng (GUI). This is also the way to submit patches. Inspect debian source packages: apt-get source
- humanrebar 9y ago
  > ...not every maintainer uses git. I can't think of a valid reason for people to avoid learning git. Is there one?
  - SergeAx 9y ago
    Is there a valid reason to move to git from any other VCS a person happy with, regarding time and resources one have to spend on it instead of productive work?
    - humanrebar 9y ago
      I can't contrast git with all the different VCS tools that are available, but different tools have different capabilities with respect to working offline and reconciling branches. At any rate, it was an honest question. I'm not familiar with any salient reasons to not use git. If the only reason is that some developers still haven't learned git yet, I guess that's an answer. Not a very satisfying one to me, but it's worth knowing that's the reason.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - jordigh 9y ago
        There are those of us who have learned git and still prefer Mercurial. It's really annoying that git is supposed to be what we use across all programs, distributions, operating systems and hardware. Just about ASCII or TCP/IP are the only things that are about as universal, and git shouldn't be nowhere nearly as foundational as them. There should be room for more than one way to do source control. Sadly, mercurial-buildpackage in Debian is a dead-end. :-(
zsj 9y ago
As for PR workflow, it will be hopefully. There's a discussion[1] to replace the Alioth[2] with Pagure[3], which has a similar workflow with Github. Maybe the Pagure is not the final decision, but it will be a modern platform that's easy for contributors. [1] https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/724986/90728a14d7a85770/ https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/724986/90728a14d7a85770/ [2] https://alioth.debian.org/ https://alioth.debian.org/ [3] https://pagure.io/ https://pagure.io/
zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 9y ago
> Have a git repo for each package Bad idea, because you don't want to lock all of Debian into one technology. Suppose Debian had similarly had one cvs repo for each package 20 years ago. Progress happens when people have the opportunity to independently build and test out different solutions without first having to convince the world that theirs is the best. > with a simple issue tracker Dunno what you mean by "simple", but there is an issue tracker for all the packages that's as simple to use as it gets, you don't even need to create an account!? > Also move away from message boards and IRC to more user friendly tools. I haven't seen message boards used by Debian!? As for IRC, what would you consider a more user friendly tool? > Currently, it's too hard to report bugs So, running reportbug on your machine is too hard?! > inspect debian source packages So, running apt-get source on your machine is too hard?! > propose fixes See bugtracker above? > many open source projects has old infrastructure What is wrong with old infrastructure?
- jopsen 9y ago
  It doesn't have to be a git repo :) But a github-like setup, project package, issues, branches, PRs. > So, running apt-get source on your machine is too hard?! Where is the web ui? I honestly feel like these commands are magic because I don't know what they clone from. (and I have to be on debian) > As for IRC, what would you consider a more user friendly tool? slack or similar... > So, running reportbug on your machine is too hard?! This assumes on a debian machine. Sometimes I find a bug searching on google, it'll be something like this: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=304373 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=304373 How do you subscribe, comment, propose a PR, where do you find the source. I have used some of the debian tools like apt-get source, but it takes a long time to learn these things, and I forget them. A github-like system is much more intuitive. ---- Note: I'm not criticizing the debian project, many open source projects have old infrastructure, that's hard to use. And I fully understand how that infrastructure came to be, and why migrating away is super hard. My point is: github-like development flow have dramatically better usability and, hence, lowered the bar for participation. I wish more of the big open source projects would embrace the importance of these advancements in usability.
  - 9y ago
spwhitton 9y ago
There's already a git repo for every package. % apt-get install dgit % dgit clone foo-package

by jopsen 9y ago

voltagex_ 9y ago

You need some linebreaks in your post. This issue could be helped with some tactical updates to the Debian Wiki. I'm in two minds about IRC - I'd hate to see it disappear and go to something like Slack, but I understand it's a bit daunting. #debian-mentors on OFTC can help with contributions to Debian.

Ianp5a 9y ago

Yes. See that KDE makes this easy with bug reporting built in to applications and desktop tools.

catdog 9y ago
Debian has reportbug and reportbug-ng.
- jopsen 9y ago
  I know that when I google an error code and somehow find a bug from debian it's always often obscure mailing list archive. If I google a docker error code, I often end up on a github issue.
  - kasabali 9y ago
    It is not Debian's fault that Google prioritizes ad ridden mailing list mirror links over the neat & clean bugs.debian.org pages.

RVuRnvbM2e 9y ago

The problem with a git repo for each package is that not every maintainer uses git.. I realise that integration could be better, but most of these things do already exist: CI: https://ci.debian.net/ https://ci.debian.net/ Tool for reporting bugs: reportbug (CLI) / reportbug-ng (GUI). This is also the way to submit patches. Inspect debian source packages: apt-get source

humanrebar 9y ago
> ...not every maintainer uses git. I can't think of a valid reason for people to avoid learning git. Is there one?
- SergeAx 9y ago
  Is there a valid reason to move to git from any other VCS a person happy with, regarding time and resources one have to spend on it instead of productive work?
  - humanrebar 9y ago
    I can't contrast git with all the different VCS tools that are available, but different tools have different capabilities with respect to working offline and reconciling branches. At any rate, it was an honest question. I'm not familiar with any salient reasons to not use git. If the only reason is that some developers still haven't learned git yet, I guess that's an answer. Not a very satisfying one to me, but it's worth knowing that's the reason.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - jordigh 9y ago
      There are those of us who have learned git and still prefer Mercurial. It's really annoying that git is supposed to be what we use across all programs, distributions, operating systems and hardware. Just about ASCII or TCP/IP are the only things that are about as universal, and git shouldn't be nowhere nearly as foundational as them. There should be room for more than one way to do source control. Sadly, mercurial-buildpackage in Debian is a dead-end. :-(

zsj 9y ago

As for PR workflow, it will be hopefully. There's a discussion[1] to replace the Alioth[2] with Pagure[3], which has a similar workflow with Github. Maybe the Pagure is not the final decision, but it will be a modern platform that's easy for contributors. [1] https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/724986/90728a14d7a85770/ https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/724986/90728a14d7a85770/ [2] https://alioth.debian.org/ https://alioth.debian.org/ [3] https://pagure.io/ https://pagure.io/

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 9y ago

> Have a git repo for each package Bad idea, because you don't want to lock all of Debian into one technology. Suppose Debian had similarly had one cvs repo for each package 20 years ago. Progress happens when people have the opportunity to independently build and test out different solutions without first having to convince the world that theirs is the best. > with a simple issue tracker Dunno what you mean by "simple", but there is an issue tracker for all the packages that's as simple to use as it gets, you don't even need to create an account!? > Also move away from message boards and IRC to more user friendly tools. I haven't seen message boards used by Debian!? As for IRC, what would you consider a more user friendly tool? > Currently, it's too hard to report bugs So, running reportbug on your machine is too hard?! > inspect debian source packages So, running apt-get source on your machine is too hard?! > propose fixes See bugtracker above? > many open source projects has old infrastructure What is wrong with old infrastructure?

jopsen 9y ago
It doesn't have to be a git repo :) But a github-like setup, project package, issues, branches, PRs. > So, running apt-get source on your machine is too hard?! Where is the web ui? I honestly feel like these commands are magic because I don't know what they clone from. (and I have to be on debian) > As for IRC, what would you consider a more user friendly tool? slack or similar... > So, running reportbug on your machine is too hard?! This assumes on a debian machine. Sometimes I find a bug searching on google, it'll be something like this: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=304373 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=304373 How do you subscribe, comment, propose a PR, where do you find the source. I have used some of the debian tools like apt-get source, but it takes a long time to learn these things, and I forget them. A github-like system is much more intuitive. ---- Note: I'm not criticizing the debian project, many open source projects have old infrastructure, that's hard to use. And I fully understand how that infrastructure came to be, and why migrating away is super hard. My point is: github-like development flow have dramatically better usability and, hence, lowered the bar for participation. I wish more of the big open source projects would embrace the importance of these advancements in usability.
- 9y ago

spwhitton 9y ago

There's already a git repo for every package. % apt-get install dgit % dgit clone foo-package