4 ms·
> They're less about removing barriers such as tariff's, etc. and more about ensconcing the rights of corporations over states. This fud that has been spread b
by friedman23 9y ago
> They're less about removing barriers such as tariff's, etc. and more about ensconcing the rights of corporations over states.
This fud that has been spread by the illiterate folk of the internet has caused so much damage. ISDS is for enforcing agreements between states if they feel businesses from their countries are being unfairly discriminated against. Nation states are still perfectly able to leave the free trade agreements if the terms are not satisfactory because they are sovereign. ISDS is the mechanism by which free trade agreements actually ensure there is free trade. Don't join free trade agreements if you want to place tariffs on foreign businesses or enforce regulations selectively against foreign business.
>e.g. Your constituents don't like pollution in their river and, playing to your constituents, you pass a law to ban dumping of chemical X, which was previously thought to be harmless but now appears to be not so harmless. Oops! Your government is being sued by foreign corporations impacted by this law, because a treaty you signed gives them that right.
I love your example because it shows how little you even know about what you are spreading fear of. You clearly feel strongly about this but you were incapable of spending 5 minutes reading wikipedia to inform yourself about what you are writing about?
>governments retain their regulatory ability, if the agreements in question specify that regulations protecting health, the environment, labour rights and human rights are allowed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor-state_dispute_settlement#Regulatory_capacity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor-state_dispute_settlem...
e.g. don't sign an agreement if you don't want to follow the provisions of the agreement. Otherwise don't expect other people to follow the stipulation of the agreement either.
Why do you insist on commenting about something you are clearly ignorant about? I am willing to bet $1000 that you have not read a single word of these trade agreements you feel so confident to give lectures on.
Bottom line, people that are ignorant and have no idea what they are talking about should not act as if they do.
- JetSpiegel 9y agoSure, you can just not trade with the US, the richest country in the world. See how far that takes your economy. No one has read "a single word of those trade agreements" because it was all done in secret until it was already signed and there's nothing to do but sign it.
- friedman23 9y ago>No one has read "a single word of those trade agreements" because it was all done in secret until it was already signed and there's nothing to do but sign it. THE AGREEMENT IS PUBLIC https://ustr.gov/trade-agreements/free-trade-agreements/trans-pacific-partnership/tpp-full-text https://ustr.gov/trade-agreements/free-trade-agreements/tran... The reason it was negotiated in secret is because governments understand that there are large populations of easily influenced idiots that can be manipulated to be against these agreements even though they benefit the people on net.
- shoo 9y agore: ISDS, one concrete example of is the case of Australian tobacco plain packaging regulation versus the tobacco company Philip Morris [1] [2]. In 2011 Australia passed legislation that "requires health warnings to cover at least 75 per cent of the front of most tobacco packaging, 90 per cent of the back of cigarette packaging and 75 per cent of the back of most other tobacco product packaging" [3]. Philip Morris restructured and moved the headquarters of their Australia and Asia operations to Hong Kong. By doing this they could take advantage of an earlier 1993 trade agreement between Hong Kong and Australia, and launched an ISDS claim against the Australian government, claiming that the packaging regulation meant that their branding and trademarks had been confiscated. Say what you want about "free trade" agreements between states, it is pretty obvious that if these agreements can be potentially exploited as above then one of the outcomes of such agreements is the erosion of the rights of states and their citizens, and in increase in power and freedom to global capital. [1] https://www.ag.gov.au/tobaccoplainpackaging https://www.ag.gov.au/tobaccoplainpackaging [2] http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/australia-versus-philip-morris-how-we-took-on-big-tobacco-and-won-20160517-gowwva.html http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/austra... [3] http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/content/tobacco-plain http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/conten...
- evgen 9y agoAnd Phillip Morris lost the case. You left out that particular part in your example. I wonder why that is? Is it because in this case, as in most such 'examples' of the horrors of ISDS, it turns out that the system did not prevent a nation from acting against a foreign corporate interest?
- Aaargh20318 9y ago> And Phillip Morris lost the case. You left out that particular part in your example. It's not about who lost or won, the problem is that there was a hearing at all. Why would there be a need for dispute settlement between companies and states ? There can be no dispute, the state dictates the law and the companies either comply or leave the country. ISDS is like giving kids the possibility of suing their parents over their bedtime. It implies the kids have some kind of say in the matter when they really don't.
- jessaustin 9y agoYou lost, OK? If we just stipulate that it's because 99.9% of Americans are idiots compared to you, can we have a year or two of breathing room before you attempt to backdoor us with this sort of evil shit again?
- friedman23 9y agoOh please, it might take 10 years it might take 15 years but TPP will be signed. You have no influence and thankfully the people that rule the countries of the world are much more intelligent than the moronic rabble of Sanders and Trump supporters that are against free trade.
- jessaustin 9y agoThanks, I just asked for a year or two but 15 will do nicely. You might find the world will have changed a bit, if you're still around then...