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Chris Lamb here, Debian Project Leader for 2017. Would love to get your feedback on the parallel "Ask HN" thread here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=145

by lamby 9y ago

Chris Lamb here, Debian Project Leader for 2017. Would love to get your feedback on the parallel "Ask HN" thread here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14579080 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14579080

Diederich 9y ago
Thank you for all of your hard work.
jameskegel 9y ago
Thanks for everything you've done for us!
agumonkey 9y ago
I don't use debian anymore, was my first linux distro, I align more with arch but I'm very happy to see you walking steadily. Happy distrofathersday
- lamby 9y ago
  > I align more with arch Could you briefly outline why? :)
  - Latty 9y ago
    I thought I'd answer despite not being the person you asked. I run Arch because it's so bare by default, without an installer. As a power user, the fact that I know exactly how my whole system is wired together and what is there means when things go wrong or need to change, I know where to go. That and I often want to be on the bleeding edge, and the rolling release and AUR makes that super easy.
  - jrimbault 9y ago
    Not the OP. But also in the same case, Debian was my first distro, these days I align more with Arch. The ArchWiki is a gift to all the community. Rolling releases, not testing. With Arch there's a feeling of owning your OS without going full LFS. I am currently planning a summer reformatting for a laptop and I can't imagine not using Arch. But those are concerns only for my personal computers. On my servers or quick VMs I still prefer Debian.
    - agumonkey 9y ago
      I was writing my answer while you did so, you summarized my views quite nicely. It's funny that we were attracted by very similar, implicit traits.
  - agumonkey 9y ago
    These are not perfectly sensical reasons: - old arch single config file, with '@' syntax for parallelism got me hooked; sure it's different in systemd days - early problem free systemd adoption - simplified, close to upstream distribution (don't want to dig for src, dev, docs etc) - their wiki is the one that speaks the most to my mind, I try to be gentle and objective, but every time, I find solutions in a short amount of time, and even more ideas. They hit a very very sweet spot to me. (gentoo was like that before the data loss) - no installer, might seem stupid but it's a bit easier to reason with it; I don't have to learn an install framework, it's very bare and unixy. - very thin tooling from arch, debian does a lot, but it's too heavy for my mind. Things might have changed since I last live in debian but I run a few debian live isos and derivatives and it always feels like "too much", administrative (as the debian documentation) - rolling by default, debian has testing but it feels riskier - AUR felt simpler (again) than custom apt repos Also I might add that I distanced myself from the OS quest (or if I could I'd run a lisp or smalltalk fork or something similar). I'd be happy to hear your suggestions about my points if you have time for that.
    - vacri 9y ago
      > their wiki is the one that speaks the most to my mind I'm a debian user, and I love the arch wiki. The debian wiki is often stale and/or incomplete, and usually you're told to go to the mailing lists (which are an awkward way to get info). The arch wiki is great at being clear and concise and I find arch's mediawiki to be more easily legible than debian's bare html.
      - agumonkey 9y ago
        Not only debian, but all distros so far.
    - lettergram 9y ago
      Something I'd add (as Arch user, but also as a Debian user for projects). I found Arch has quicker updates to the kernal and overall is super quick to adopt the latest tech. What made me completely switch to Arch for every day use, was the day the GTX 1080 came out, I could set it up on Arch with the beta drivers. If I wanted to do the same on Debian, I had to figure out how to update the kernal to a version not typically used, then find or figure out how to install the beta drivers, etc. Etc. Debian is more stable, so when I need to do something where I don't need the latest drivers, I like to use it. Typically, my servers, my company laptop(s), etc.
  - Tharre 9y ago
    Not OP, but mostly in the same boat, except I still use Debian for my servers. My biggest gripe with debian is apt. Compared to pacman, it is just so much worse in just about everything. I realize that it has a slightly more difficult job, but still. I have found myself too often in situations, where I simply couldn't fix whatever apt was complaining about. With pacman you just specify -d and you're fine (or --force if there's a file conflict). Also, I've never managed to successfully create my own debian package. With Arch PKGBUILD system, it's a breeze. Just my 2 cents.
    - krzyk 9y ago
      Could you be more specific? I use apt and it works fine for me (I can't say the same about yum on Redhats).
    - jameskegel 9y ago
      I'm not sure what you mean, could you give some examples?
      - Tharre 9y ago
        It's hard to be very specific here - since I obviously don't remember the exact problems I have encountered. However here are two examples[0][1] of the sort of problems I mean. Both are non-issues with pacman, I can simply choose to ignore dependencies entirely and fix the problem. Also I just realized I wrote "apt" before, but I really meant the packaging system itself, not just apt. Which also begs the question, why are there at least 4 seperate programs for package management (apt, apt-get, aptitude, dpkg)? [0] https://askubuntu.com/questions/612593/ https://askubuntu.com/questions/612593/ [1] https://askubuntu.com/questions/223237/ https://askubuntu.com/questions/223237/
  - spotman 9y ago
    also not op, but share same thoughts largely. for me makepkg/PKGBUILD and abs keep me coming back to arch.
  - wvh 9y ago
    Not original poster, but similar position. I've used Debian privately and professionally on servers and desktop since the 90's, altogether several hundred systems. I've also used Slackware and LFS years ago. My personal laptop runs Arch the last few years (with Debian stable as backup partition); my work computer runs Debian unstable or testing (depending on release cycle). The reason I like Arch is that it's close to the source. Debian often adds more patches and layers, policies and complexity to the building process. In Arch I can get an updated package in hours straight from the source origin, either built by the maintainer or built and packaged myself. It's very helpful if you are tracking, fixing or reporting bugs to upstream developers. True rolling release model is handy if you'd like to be part of open-source development or need to get something working at the bleeding edge. Note that Debian's added complexity and stability is much appreciated for all other systems, it's just a bit more difficult to pull straight from the source for many packages. I do not need and would not want to run bleeding edge on most systems. Edit: and thanks!
zmonx 9y ago
Thank you Chris for all your work on Debian, and congratulations on the release! I have been following your progress from back when you were the maintainer of the SWI-Prolog package for Debian, and it is awesome how much you and all other contributors have achieved within the project, to the benefit of all people who use Debian! Thumbs up for the future!
zodmaner 9y ago
Thank you for your hard work. I've just upgraded from Jessie to Stretch on my main laptop and the process is silky smooth. Even though I only started using Debian with Jessie (was using Ubuntu and Arch before that), I've come to love and depend on Debian's quality, stability, and reliability. Here's to infinite more years of Debian!
AaaaBbbbasas 9y ago
Fuck you.

by lamby 9y ago

Diederich 9y ago

Thank you for all of your hard work.

jameskegel 9y ago

Thanks for everything you've done for us!

agumonkey 9y ago

I don't use debian anymore, was my first linux distro, I align more with arch but I'm very happy to see you walking steadily. Happy distrofathersday

lamby 9y ago
> I align more with arch Could you briefly outline why? :)
- Latty 9y ago
  I thought I'd answer despite not being the person you asked. I run Arch because it's so bare by default, without an installer. As a power user, the fact that I know exactly how my whole system is wired together and what is there means when things go wrong or need to change, I know where to go. That and I often want to be on the bleeding edge, and the rolling release and AUR makes that super easy.
- jrimbault 9y ago
  Not the OP. But also in the same case, Debian was my first distro, these days I align more with Arch. The ArchWiki is a gift to all the community. Rolling releases, not testing. With Arch there's a feeling of owning your OS without going full LFS. I am currently planning a summer reformatting for a laptop and I can't imagine not using Arch. But those are concerns only for my personal computers. On my servers or quick VMs I still prefer Debian.
  - agumonkey 9y ago
    I was writing my answer while you did so, you summarized my views quite nicely. It's funny that we were attracted by very similar, implicit traits.
- agumonkey 9y ago
  These are not perfectly sensical reasons: - old arch single config file, with '@' syntax for parallelism got me hooked; sure it's different in systemd days - early problem free systemd adoption - simplified, close to upstream distribution (don't want to dig for src, dev, docs etc) - their wiki is the one that speaks the most to my mind, I try to be gentle and objective, but every time, I find solutions in a short amount of time, and even more ideas. They hit a very very sweet spot to me. (gentoo was like that before the data loss) - no installer, might seem stupid but it's a bit easier to reason with it; I don't have to learn an install framework, it's very bare and unixy. - very thin tooling from arch, debian does a lot, but it's too heavy for my mind. Things might have changed since I last live in debian but I run a few debian live isos and derivatives and it always feels like "too much", administrative (as the debian documentation) - rolling by default, debian has testing but it feels riskier - AUR felt simpler (again) than custom apt repos Also I might add that I distanced myself from the OS quest (or if I could I'd run a lisp or smalltalk fork or something similar). I'd be happy to hear your suggestions about my points if you have time for that.
  - vacri 9y ago
    > their wiki is the one that speaks the most to my mind I'm a debian user, and I love the arch wiki. The debian wiki is often stale and/or incomplete, and usually you're told to go to the mailing lists (which are an awkward way to get info). The arch wiki is great at being clear and concise and I find arch's mediawiki to be more easily legible than debian's bare html.
    - agumonkey 9y ago
      Not only debian, but all distros so far.
  - lettergram 9y ago
    Something I'd add (as Arch user, but also as a Debian user for projects). I found Arch has quicker updates to the kernal and overall is super quick to adopt the latest tech. What made me completely switch to Arch for every day use, was the day the GTX 1080 came out, I could set it up on Arch with the beta drivers. If I wanted to do the same on Debian, I had to figure out how to update the kernal to a version not typically used, then find or figure out how to install the beta drivers, etc. Etc. Debian is more stable, so when I need to do something where I don't need the latest drivers, I like to use it. Typically, my servers, my company laptop(s), etc.
- Tharre 9y ago
  Not OP, but mostly in the same boat, except I still use Debian for my servers. My biggest gripe with debian is apt. Compared to pacman, it is just so much worse in just about everything. I realize that it has a slightly more difficult job, but still. I have found myself too often in situations, where I simply couldn't fix whatever apt was complaining about. With pacman you just specify -d and you're fine (or --force if there's a file conflict). Also, I've never managed to successfully create my own debian package. With Arch PKGBUILD system, it's a breeze. Just my 2 cents.
  - krzyk 9y ago
    Could you be more specific? I use apt and it works fine for me (I can't say the same about yum on Redhats).
  - jameskegel 9y ago
    I'm not sure what you mean, could you give some examples?
    - Tharre 9y ago
      It's hard to be very specific here - since I obviously don't remember the exact problems I have encountered. However here are two examples[0][1] of the sort of problems I mean. Both are non-issues with pacman, I can simply choose to ignore dependencies entirely and fix the problem. Also I just realized I wrote "apt" before, but I really meant the packaging system itself, not just apt. Which also begs the question, why are there at least 4 seperate programs for package management (apt, apt-get, aptitude, dpkg)? [0] https://askubuntu.com/questions/612593/ https://askubuntu.com/questions/612593/ [1] https://askubuntu.com/questions/223237/ https://askubuntu.com/questions/223237/
- spotman 9y ago
  also not op, but share same thoughts largely. for me makepkg/PKGBUILD and abs keep me coming back to arch.
- wvh 9y ago
  Not original poster, but similar position. I've used Debian privately and professionally on servers and desktop since the 90's, altogether several hundred systems. I've also used Slackware and LFS years ago. My personal laptop runs Arch the last few years (with Debian stable as backup partition); my work computer runs Debian unstable or testing (depending on release cycle). The reason I like Arch is that it's close to the source. Debian often adds more patches and layers, policies and complexity to the building process. In Arch I can get an updated package in hours straight from the source origin, either built by the maintainer or built and packaged myself. It's very helpful if you are tracking, fixing or reporting bugs to upstream developers. True rolling release model is handy if you'd like to be part of open-source development or need to get something working at the bleeding edge. Note that Debian's added complexity and stability is much appreciated for all other systems, it's just a bit more difficult to pull straight from the source for many packages. I do not need and would not want to run bleeding edge on most systems. Edit: and thanks!

zmonx 9y ago

Thank you Chris for all your work on Debian, and congratulations on the release! I have been following your progress from back when you were the maintainer of the SWI-Prolog package for Debian, and it is awesome how much you and all other contributors have achieved within the project, to the benefit of all people who use Debian! Thumbs up for the future!

zodmaner 9y ago

Thank you for your hard work. I've just upgraded from Jessie to Stretch on my main laptop and the process is silky smooth. Even though I only started using Debian with Jessie (was using Ubuntu and Arch before that), I've come to love and depend on Debian's quality, stability, and reliability. Here's to infinite more years of Debian!

AaaaBbbbasas 9y ago

Fuck you.