14 ms·

So long, farewell and goodbye

320 points by danjoc 9y ago

simplehuman 9y ago
Not sure I understand. a) lead dev is stepping down b) lead dev has not groomed a successor c) this is where I am lost. he says patches welcome... But who will merge if he has no time or has no successor?
- eponeponepon 9y ago
  He also says there are some people that he "trusts". I hope that means Fdroid won't stagnate, or worse, disappear down the Sourceforge route.
- iSnow 9y ago
  I think there's an implied d) No one stepped up and lead dev has stopped caring
  - gpvos 9y ago
    Well, in a comment he says he'll stay on the IRC channel to answer questions.
- coldtea 9y ago
  >c) this is where I am lost. he says patches welcome... But who will merge if he has no time or has no successor? It's not like he's irreplaceable, even if there's not currently a successor.
  - nopenada 9y ago
    > It's not like he's irreplaceable, even if there's not currently a successor. That's where you're wrong. Most open source projects have a single maintainer who does the vast majority of the work. It is not uncommon for them to put in 30 hours per week or more for free. In theory someone could step up and replace them - but no one ever does because that requires actual work. Maintaining a large project is a thankless task. People are constantly bitching and complaining why you haven't implemented useless feature X or fixed random bug Y for their commercial product. Github is full of self-entitled whining users who never give back to the community and expect everything for free and fixed in a timely manner. Large open source projects being driven by unpaid volunteers is simply not viable or sustainable. All big projects (Linux, GCC, LLVM) are sponsored by the likes of IBM, Google, Facebook, Red Hat and Apple. It's the only model that works.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - jancsika 9y ago
      I agree and have firsthand experience with everything you said except the last paragraph. (And Debian is a quick counterexample.) There are viable large volunteer projects. The way they become viable is to interpret single points of failure as damage, and to fix that damage. That damage definitely includes relying on a single maintainer's ability and knowledge to keep the project going. There's even a term for it-- "bus factor"-- which answers the question of how many of the core developers could get hit by a bus with the project remaining healthy and maintained. If the "bus factor" is 1 and the userbase is large, that's a critical bug in maintainership.
    - X86BSD 9y ago
      I disagree. The BSD's surely meet your definition of "large open source projects being driven by unpaid volunteers" and I argue they are not only viable but the longest running if not largest open source projects ever.
- smoyer 9y ago
  There are four "Owners", one "Master" and several "Developers" with permissions to commit to the f-droid project - https://gitlab.com/groups/fdroid/group_members https://gitlab.com/groups/fdroid/group_members.
ianai 9y ago
I'm more curious what he's switched to if not Apple.
- oliwarner 9y ago
  > don't you worry, I don't use any less free systems either I think that answers that. Note to downvoter: That wasn't sarcastic. That does answer that. Chaps like Boris wouldn't go from a relatively open platform like Android where they built an open source market for it and then go to a completely-walled-in garden like iOS where they don't have the power to run whatever they want.
  - raverbashing 9y ago
    And the answer is? Note: the question is what did he switch to?
  - jwilk 9y ago
    From the HN guidelines: Please resist commenting about being downvoted. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.
- brador 9y ago
  Could be Ubuntu OS, or, more likely, an old school dumb phone.
  - msh 9y ago
    The dumb phone would be less free than Android.
    - saghm 9y ago
      Yeah, but it probably wouldn't be used for much besides phone calls and maybe texts, as opposed to email, web browsing, etc. as well.
  - distances 9y ago
    Ubuntu phone was discontinued. Sailfish more likely, I'd say.
elorm 9y ago
Being a long time f-droid user, i panicked a bit when i saw the title. It's really sad to see Boris leave, considering the amount of work he puts in. You'd go over to make a little contribution and be feeling yourself, then you look over and see Boris who's made about 9000 commits and you're immensely humbled.
victornomad 9y ago
F-droid is one of the main things that keeps me in the Android world. I hope it continues but I suspect one day Google will make it more difficult for them to survive..... Android is becoming more and more Googlified and most apps come with google services. Even the simplest app tracks you in some way. I love F-droid because installing an app from there is like a proof that the app has some "ethics" and will respect you and your privacy. I think Android has been like a Trojan horse for many of us. It came as an "open and free" platform that attracted many of us, developers and users. But now is reeeeally difficult to escape from the google realm. We need more alternatives!
- nolok 9y ago
  > I hope it continues but I suspect one day Google will make it more difficult for them to survive Google has no reason nor interest to do that. There are several alternative stores out there, and moving to kill them would alienate several of their partners, as well as possibly open a legal case against them in some jurisdiction. On top of that, size wise, F-Droid doesn't even register for them. Honestly, this feeling if you have it is more of a delusion of persecution than anything tangible. > Android is becoming more and more Googlified and most apps come with google services. That I agree, but sadly it's still one of the better timelines: google play services is an app that they can update to provide better support and services for app, and this was the solution they chose to fix the early days of "no manufacturer update their phone's OS, so new app can't rely on new features". Is it perfect ? Nope. Is it great ? Nope. But when you have to compose in a world where manufacturer lock their phone so you can't update the OS unless they say so, it was kind of the natural path to move a many features as you could to a library like this. > I love F-droid because installing an app from there is like a proof that the app has some "ethics" and will respect you and your privacy. F-Droid is a "repository of free and open source" project, it has nothing to do with respecting user privacy or "having ethics". While there may be some correlation between the two, it's not a given by far. The F-droid project itself makes a guarantee of not tracking you, and they say they try to check apps they deliver to ensure they don't have abuse of privacy built in, but they go out of their way to make it clear it's not guaranteed and that app may or may not have such abuse in their code. > I think Android has been like a Trojan horse for many of us. It came as an "open and free" platform that attracted many of us, developers and users. But now is reeeeally difficult to escape from the google realm. When has Android been more open than today exactly ? And I'm not saying that in a "android is becoming more and more open" way, I'm saying it has always been like this. > We need more alternatives! Agreed
Animats 9y ago
That's annoying. I use F-Droid, and have all Google services removed from my Android phone. ZANavi for GPS, Firefox for browsing, and the Android mail client connected to an IMAP server for mail. Works fine.
- Markoff 9y ago
  why not Maps.me? nice UI and doesn't require play services
  - tomcooks 9y ago
    With every update it gets heavier with annoyances (notifications, booking.com integration, etc) and less usable. Dropped it in favor of OSMand
    - Markoff 9y ago
      osmand has just horrible interface, that's good way how to scare someone from using OSM, it's fore sure in leading top 10 of apps with the worst interface on top of great service

320 points by danjoc 9y ago

Not sure I understand. a) lead dev is stepping down b) lead dev has not groomed a successor c) this is where I am lost. he says patches welcome... But who will merge if he has no time or has no successor?

eponeponepon 9y ago
He also says there are some people that he "trusts". I hope that means Fdroid won't stagnate, or worse, disappear down the Sourceforge route.
iSnow 9y ago
I think there's an implied d) No one stepped up and lead dev has stopped caring
- gpvos 9y ago
  Well, in a comment he says he'll stay on the IRC channel to answer questions.
coldtea 9y ago
>c) this is where I am lost. he says patches welcome... But who will merge if he has no time or has no successor? It's not like he's irreplaceable, even if there's not currently a successor.
- nopenada 9y ago
  > It's not like he's irreplaceable, even if there's not currently a successor. That's where you're wrong. Most open source projects have a single maintainer who does the vast majority of the work. It is not uncommon for them to put in 30 hours per week or more for free. In theory someone could step up and replace them - but no one ever does because that requires actual work. Maintaining a large project is a thankless task. People are constantly bitching and complaining why you haven't implemented useless feature X or fixed random bug Y for their commercial product. Github is full of self-entitled whining users who never give back to the community and expect everything for free and fixed in a timely manner. Large open source projects being driven by unpaid volunteers is simply not viable or sustainable. All big projects (Linux, GCC, LLVM) are sponsored by the likes of IBM, Google, Facebook, Red Hat and Apple. It's the only model that works.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - jancsika 9y ago
    I agree and have firsthand experience with everything you said except the last paragraph. (And Debian is a quick counterexample.) There are viable large volunteer projects. The way they become viable is to interpret single points of failure as damage, and to fix that damage. That damage definitely includes relying on a single maintainer's ability and knowledge to keep the project going. There's even a term for it-- "bus factor"-- which answers the question of how many of the core developers could get hit by a bus with the project remaining healthy and maintained. If the "bus factor" is 1 and the userbase is large, that's a critical bug in maintainership.
  - X86BSD 9y ago
    I disagree. The BSD's surely meet your definition of "large open source projects being driven by unpaid volunteers" and I argue they are not only viable but the longest running if not largest open source projects ever.
smoyer 9y ago
There are four "Owners", one "Master" and several "Developers" with permissions to commit to the f-droid project - https://gitlab.com/groups/fdroid/group_members https://gitlab.com/groups/fdroid/group_members.

ianai 9y ago

I'm more curious what he's switched to if not Apple.

oliwarner 9y ago
> don't you worry, I don't use any less free systems either I think that answers that. Note to downvoter: That wasn't sarcastic. That does answer that. Chaps like Boris wouldn't go from a relatively open platform like Android where they built an open source market for it and then go to a completely-walled-in garden like iOS where they don't have the power to run whatever they want.
- raverbashing 9y ago
  And the answer is? Note: the question is what did he switch to?
- jwilk 9y ago
  From the HN guidelines: Please resist commenting about being downvoted. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.
brador 9y ago
Could be Ubuntu OS, or, more likely, an old school dumb phone.
- msh 9y ago
  The dumb phone would be less free than Android.
  - saghm 9y ago
    Yeah, but it probably wouldn't be used for much besides phone calls and maybe texts, as opposed to email, web browsing, etc. as well.
- distances 9y ago
  Ubuntu phone was discontinued. Sailfish more likely, I'd say.

elorm 9y ago

Being a long time f-droid user, i panicked a bit when i saw the title. It's really sad to see Boris leave, considering the amount of work he puts in. You'd go over to make a little contribution and be feeling yourself, then you look over and see Boris who's made about 9000 commits and you're immensely humbled.

victornomad 9y ago

F-droid is one of the main things that keeps me in the Android world. I hope it continues but I suspect one day Google will make it more difficult for them to survive..... Android is becoming more and more Googlified and most apps come with google services. Even the simplest app tracks you in some way. I love F-droid because installing an app from there is like a proof that the app has some "ethics" and will respect you and your privacy. I think Android has been like a Trojan horse for many of us. It came as an "open and free" platform that attracted many of us, developers and users. But now is reeeeally difficult to escape from the google realm. We need more alternatives!

nolok 9y ago
> I hope it continues but I suspect one day Google will make it more difficult for them to survive Google has no reason nor interest to do that. There are several alternative stores out there, and moving to kill them would alienate several of their partners, as well as possibly open a legal case against them in some jurisdiction. On top of that, size wise, F-Droid doesn't even register for them. Honestly, this feeling if you have it is more of a delusion of persecution than anything tangible. > Android is becoming more and more Googlified and most apps come with google services. That I agree, but sadly it's still one of the better timelines: google play services is an app that they can update to provide better support and services for app, and this was the solution they chose to fix the early days of "no manufacturer update their phone's OS, so new app can't rely on new features". Is it perfect ? Nope. Is it great ? Nope. But when you have to compose in a world where manufacturer lock their phone so you can't update the OS unless they say so, it was kind of the natural path to move a many features as you could to a library like this. > I love F-droid because installing an app from there is like a proof that the app has some "ethics" and will respect you and your privacy. F-Droid is a "repository of free and open source" project, it has nothing to do with respecting user privacy or "having ethics". While there may be some correlation between the two, it's not a given by far. The F-droid project itself makes a guarantee of not tracking you, and they say they try to check apps they deliver to ensure they don't have abuse of privacy built in, but they go out of their way to make it clear it's not guaranteed and that app may or may not have such abuse in their code. > I think Android has been like a Trojan horse for many of us. It came as an "open and free" platform that attracted many of us, developers and users. But now is reeeeally difficult to escape from the google realm. When has Android been more open than today exactly ? And I'm not saying that in a "android is becoming more and more open" way, I'm saying it has always been like this. > We need more alternatives! Agreed

Animats 9y ago

That's annoying. I use F-Droid, and have all Google services removed from my Android phone. ZANavi for GPS, Firefox for browsing, and the Android mail client connected to an IMAP server for mail. Works fine.

Markoff 9y ago
why not Maps.me? nice UI and doesn't require play services
- tomcooks 9y ago
  With every update it gets heavier with annoyances (notifications, booking.com integration, etc) and less usable. Dropped it in favor of OSMand
  - Markoff 9y ago
    osmand has just horrible interface, that's good way how to scare someone from using OSM, it's fore sure in leading top 10 of apps with the worst interface on top of great service