5 ms·

All you have to do is ignore all current safety and road-worthiness regulations, eliminate even the most basic of comforts like A/C and heat, and fill the vehic

All you have to do is ignore all current safety and road-worthiness regulations, eliminate even the most basic of comforts like A/C and heat, and fill the vehicle with batteries of questionable safety and quality. When you’re finished you have a 2 seater with a longer range than a 5/7 seater that didn’t skimp on anything. Honestly, this is no different than the guys that stuff V8s into Miatas on the cheap and get performance rivaling 100k sports card. We’ve been doing this with cars for a century now, why would anyone expect electrics to be different?

rhizome 9y ago
the guys that stuff V8s into Miatas Thank you for triggering me. I was sort-of shopping for a Datsun 240Z about 10 years ago and my heart broke seeing how many have been butchered into V8 drag monsters.
- pryelluw 9y ago
  Ill accept and RB swap if the owner doesnt want the factort L engine. But no V8 please
- Gracana 9y ago
  I hear this complaint about all manner of modified cars, but nobody wants to put their money where their mouth is. Those cars get built for the same reason you haven't bought one... It's expensive to own a classic car in good stock condition.
jacquesm 9y ago
If they had used something a bit lighter than a BMW 5 series like a VW Passat or a Golf it would have gone even further. Edit: Ok, so now I'm doubting. I only see a driver seat in the video but underneath it says it has both a driver and passenger seat.
- dsfyu404ed 9y ago
  For how long. If the starting weight minus interior stuff plus batteries winds up significantly higher than OEM curb weight you're going to be eating wear parts much faster and putting control arms, etc at risk with every pothole. Then again, most of these conversions live somewhere there are no potholes, bare steel doesn't rust, green energy is the cheapest way to get electricity and is otherwise not representative of the rest of the world.
gerdesj 9y ago
That was my first thought as well but to be fair he has plotted a pretty useful data point - several parameters on this beast are hitting the backstops and hence could be considered design constraints. Personally speaking, I'm firmly in favour of this sort of thing. As well as data, it raises the profile of something that is pretty bloody boring to most people.
CalChris 9y ago
Avoiding a V8, the White Zombie is a Datsun 1200 converted into an EV dragster. It is the first street legal EV to turn a 10 second quarter. http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/history.php http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/history.php
- codecamper 9y ago
  This is maybe the best thing I've seen so far this year. Thank you! This video is worth a watch about White Zombie. Love how he deadpans the make of his car after dusting the Mustang. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apoeGMWF17c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apoeGMWF17c
perseusprime11 9y ago
Everytime I read anything made from recycled parts, it reminds me of Frankenstein. Why bother with such creations?
- grogenaut 9y ago
  Why build anything? Why design anything? Why do you write software or build new businesses? Why did you take apart electronics or computers as a kid? Why did you build something other than what was on the lego box?
- icantdrive55 9y ago
  Because we are at a time in history where we just pay the other guy to make a supposedly better product. I'm looking to buy a new vechicle. I asked the Salesman about repair/maintance of the vechicles on the lot. He said, "Oh--no one works on their cars anymore. It's what the service wing of the dealership is for." He wasn't kidding. And there's customers sipping Starbucks, eating pastries, and watching movies in the lush waiting room. I thought, how can these people afford $175/HR. for a Service mechanic? I didn't even question him. Even if I had a lot of disposable income, I'm not paying $175 hr(last I looked) to anyone to work on my vechicle. (Guys have been building electric vechicles for the last twenty-thirty years. Twenty years ago my community college was offering a electric vechicle conversion course. It took the students from theory to a finished electric VW. Now--if you buy the right salvaged car; you can fool around with autonomous controls.).
  - dsfyu404ed 9y ago
    175hr sounds like you're shopping for German cars or live in a coastal city full of people with more money than sense. >Now--if you buy the right salvaged car; you can fool around with autonomous controls.). One of the areas where OEM is far ahead of aftermarket is variable handling. Dynamic modification of shock valving, sway bar characteristics, spring rate, etc. based on body position, road quality, learned driving style, etc is something that hasn't yet hit the aftermarket but hopefully will soon now that GM SUVs with v8s and all the electronic bells and whistles to control those systems are readily available as salvage.
elif 9y ago
How many people got into the Guinness book of world records for putting a V8 into their Miata? Your pessimism is really appreciated by gas car makers.
Taniwha 9y ago
Our Makerspace shares space with a revolving group of people doing electric car conversions. They take cars that are already roadworthy (NZ requires a full road-worthiness test every 6-12 months) but maybe a sad engine. Rip out that engine, leave the transmission, gas tank, radiator etc. Bodge up a bracket to hold the electric motor and one to mate the engine with the transmission, some people wedge the transmission into 2nd and remove the gear stick. Find a spot for the power controller and hook it up, add a vacuum pump for the power steering/brakes. Now fill the empty spaces (in the engine compartment and where the gas tank was) with batteries .... drive it away .... They start out roadworthy, and nothing that made them roadworthy is taken away. They go down and get retested after they're done. None of the passenger space has gone. AC isn't required here, we wind down our windows, I'll agree heat is an issue.
- codecamper 9y ago
  Where is this Makerspace? Sounds awesome. Tesla should make their liquid cooled battery packs for the conversion market. Of course their market cap dictates they can't go so low margin, but if the Tesla beast collapses (next market downturn?)... someone should be ready to jump in and convert their battery tech into these turnkey solutions for other manufacturers / converters.
  - kwhitefoot 9y ago
    > turnkey solutions for other manufacturers isn't this what the Gigafactory is for?
  - Taniwha 9y ago
    We're in Dunedin, New Zealand - the Makerspace isn't the group that's doing the conversions, we share our space with a bunch of other groups that do things like electric car and bike conversions https://valleyworkspace.org/ https://valleyworkspace.org/
- Retric 9y ago
  Batteries are not inherently road worthy, and a significant chunk of car 'battery' weight is all the systems that make it relatively safe to have an electric car. They are also introducing an unknown power line which could kill rescue workers who think it's safe to cut X, when it's not. Don't get me wrong they could be doing this safely, but it's really easy to mess something up.
crispyambulance 9y ago
I think you're right that they're making a dubious comparison. Even if the recycled car is "roadworthy", it's still a one-off made from ad-hoc parts and enormous amounts of expensive volunteer labor. The larger point they're making, which they clearly didn't emphasize, is that there's tremendous value in re-use. I guess it was too irresistible for a bunch of recycling guys to boast about kicking Tesla's ass on a road test. No harm done.
dsfyu404ed 9y ago
x2. If you built a 1991 Toyota Tercel or Ford Escort with a 2017 power-train complaint with 1991 safety and emissions it'd get amazing fuel economy.

rhizome 9y ago

the guys that stuff V8s into Miatas Thank you for triggering me. I was sort-of shopping for a Datsun 240Z about 10 years ago and my heart broke seeing how many have been butchered into V8 drag monsters.

pryelluw 9y ago
Ill accept and RB swap if the owner doesnt want the factort L engine. But no V8 please
Gracana 9y ago
I hear this complaint about all manner of modified cars, but nobody wants to put their money where their mouth is. Those cars get built for the same reason you haven't bought one... It's expensive to own a classic car in good stock condition.

jacquesm 9y ago

If they had used something a bit lighter than a BMW 5 series like a VW Passat or a Golf it would have gone even further. Edit: Ok, so now I'm doubting. I only see a driver seat in the video but underneath it says it has both a driver and passenger seat.

dsfyu404ed 9y ago
For how long. If the starting weight minus interior stuff plus batteries winds up significantly higher than OEM curb weight you're going to be eating wear parts much faster and putting control arms, etc at risk with every pothole. Then again, most of these conversions live somewhere there are no potholes, bare steel doesn't rust, green energy is the cheapest way to get electricity and is otherwise not representative of the rest of the world.

gerdesj 9y ago

That was my first thought as well but to be fair he has plotted a pretty useful data point - several parameters on this beast are hitting the backstops and hence could be considered design constraints. Personally speaking, I'm firmly in favour of this sort of thing. As well as data, it raises the profile of something that is pretty bloody boring to most people.

CalChris 9y ago

Avoiding a V8, the White Zombie is a Datsun 1200 converted into an EV dragster. It is the first street legal EV to turn a 10 second quarter. http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/history.php http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/history.php

codecamper 9y ago
This is maybe the best thing I've seen so far this year. Thank you! This video is worth a watch about White Zombie. Love how he deadpans the make of his car after dusting the Mustang. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apoeGMWF17c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apoeGMWF17c

perseusprime11 9y ago

Everytime I read anything made from recycled parts, it reminds me of Frankenstein. Why bother with such creations?

grogenaut 9y ago
Why build anything? Why design anything? Why do you write software or build new businesses? Why did you take apart electronics or computers as a kid? Why did you build something other than what was on the lego box?
icantdrive55 9y ago
Because we are at a time in history where we just pay the other guy to make a supposedly better product. I'm looking to buy a new vechicle. I asked the Salesman about repair/maintance of the vechicles on the lot. He said, "Oh--no one works on their cars anymore. It's what the service wing of the dealership is for." He wasn't kidding. And there's customers sipping Starbucks, eating pastries, and watching movies in the lush waiting room. I thought, how can these people afford $175/HR. for a Service mechanic? I didn't even question him. Even if I had a lot of disposable income, I'm not paying $175 hr(last I looked) to anyone to work on my vechicle. (Guys have been building electric vechicles for the last twenty-thirty years. Twenty years ago my community college was offering a electric vechicle conversion course. It took the students from theory to a finished electric VW. Now--if you buy the right salvaged car; you can fool around with autonomous controls.).
- dsfyu404ed 9y ago
  175hr sounds like you're shopping for German cars or live in a coastal city full of people with more money than sense. >Now--if you buy the right salvaged car; you can fool around with autonomous controls.). One of the areas where OEM is far ahead of aftermarket is variable handling. Dynamic modification of shock valving, sway bar characteristics, spring rate, etc. based on body position, road quality, learned driving style, etc is something that hasn't yet hit the aftermarket but hopefully will soon now that GM SUVs with v8s and all the electronic bells and whistles to control those systems are readily available as salvage.

elif 9y ago

How many people got into the Guinness book of world records for putting a V8 into their Miata? Your pessimism is really appreciated by gas car makers.

Taniwha 9y ago

Our Makerspace shares space with a revolving group of people doing electric car conversions. They take cars that are already roadworthy (NZ requires a full road-worthiness test every 6-12 months) but maybe a sad engine. Rip out that engine, leave the transmission, gas tank, radiator etc. Bodge up a bracket to hold the electric motor and one to mate the engine with the transmission, some people wedge the transmission into 2nd and remove the gear stick. Find a spot for the power controller and hook it up, add a vacuum pump for the power steering/brakes. Now fill the empty spaces (in the engine compartment and where the gas tank was) with batteries .... drive it away .... They start out roadworthy, and nothing that made them roadworthy is taken away. They go down and get retested after they're done. None of the passenger space has gone. AC isn't required here, we wind down our windows, I'll agree heat is an issue.

codecamper 9y ago
Where is this Makerspace? Sounds awesome. Tesla should make their liquid cooled battery packs for the conversion market. Of course their market cap dictates they can't go so low margin, but if the Tesla beast collapses (next market downturn?)... someone should be ready to jump in and convert their battery tech into these turnkey solutions for other manufacturers / converters.
- kwhitefoot 9y ago
  > turnkey solutions for other manufacturers isn't this what the Gigafactory is for?
- Taniwha 9y ago
  We're in Dunedin, New Zealand - the Makerspace isn't the group that's doing the conversions, we share our space with a bunch of other groups that do things like electric car and bike conversions https://valleyworkspace.org/ https://valleyworkspace.org/
Retric 9y ago
Batteries are not inherently road worthy, and a significant chunk of car 'battery' weight is all the systems that make it relatively safe to have an electric car. They are also introducing an unknown power line which could kill rescue workers who think it's safe to cut X, when it's not. Don't get me wrong they could be doing this safely, but it's really easy to mess something up.

crispyambulance 9y ago

I think you're right that they're making a dubious comparison. Even if the recycled car is "roadworthy", it's still a one-off made from ad-hoc parts and enormous amounts of expensive volunteer labor. The larger point they're making, which they clearly didn't emphasize, is that there's tremendous value in re-use. I guess it was too irresistible for a bunch of recycling guys to boast about kicking Tesla's ass on a road test. No harm done.

dsfyu404ed 9y ago

x2. If you built a 1991 Toyota Tercel or Ford Escort with a 2017 power-train complaint with 1991 safety and emissions it'd get amazing fuel economy.