3 ms·

That's what happens when you annex part of a country. People keep moving across something which is not a natural border. Also, it's sad that you have to call h

by fooker 9y ago

That's what happens when you annex part of a country. People keep moving across something which is not a natural border. Also, it's sad that you have to call human beings 'aliens'.

toomuchtodo 9y ago
"Non-citizens" works just as well I suppose.
- closeparen 9y ago
  "Non-citizens" includes lawful permanent residents and visa holders. The term generally preferred by those of us who balk at "illegal" and "alien" is "undocumented."
  - qb45 9y ago
    I said "alien" because it's a legal term and I see it used a lot, including by US authorities. FWIW, I was once an alien in the US too and saw this term in my own documents many times. I don't even know any good substitute, "foreigner" is pretty much the literal translation but "illegal foreigners" just sounds unusual, "illegal immigrants" would be better but then "immigrant" isn't really the same thing as "alien". Now, using "undocumented" for "illegal" is clearly fraudulent. These words don't mean the same.
    - closeparen 9y ago
      Ilegal alien frames people as primarily criminals who are not like us (and should get out). Undocumented frames people as lacking official documentation for the lives they lead (so we should document them). That is illegal, yes, but the terminology puts the emphasis in a different place. Would you say "person who struggled with narcotics addiction" or "felon"? People who were addicted to hard drugs at one point possessed them, and are necessarily criminals in the same way that people who are in the US without corresponding records in government databases are necessarily criminals. Which word you choose depends on how you want the audience to feel about them. Illegal vs. undocumented is just a code word for your view on immigration policy (with illegal being more neutral, undocumented being specifically liberal).

3 ms·

That's what happens when you annex part of a country. People keep moving across something which is not a natural border. Also, it's sad that you have to call h

by fooker 9y ago

That's what happens when you annex part of a country. People keep moving across something which is not a natural border. Also, it's sad that you have to call human beings 'aliens'.

toomuchtodo 9y ago
"Non-citizens" works just as well I suppose.
- closeparen 9y ago
  "Non-citizens" includes lawful permanent residents and visa holders. The term generally preferred by those of us who balk at "illegal" and "alien" is "undocumented."
  - qb45 9y ago
    I said "alien" because it's a legal term and I see it used a lot, including by US authorities. FWIW, I was once an alien in the US too and saw this term in my own documents many times. I don't even know any good substitute, "foreigner" is pretty much the literal translation but "illegal foreigners" just sounds unusual, "illegal immigrants" would be better but then "immigrant" isn't really the same thing as "alien". Now, using "undocumented" for "illegal" is clearly fraudulent. These words don't mean the same.
    - closeparen 9y ago
      Ilegal alien frames people as primarily criminals who are not like us (and should get out). Undocumented frames people as lacking official documentation for the lives they lead (so we should document them). That is illegal, yes, but the terminology puts the emphasis in a different place. Would you say "person who struggled with narcotics addiction" or "felon"? People who were addicted to hard drugs at one point possessed them, and are necessarily criminals in the same way that people who are in the US without corresponding records in government databases are necessarily criminals. Which word you choose depends on how you want the audience to feel about them. Illegal vs. undocumented is just a code word for your view on immigration policy (with illegal being more neutral, undocumented being specifically liberal).