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>Do you still live at home with your parents? Some people grow up and move out. So will humanity if it will be responsible. Sure. But imagine you have destroye

>Do you still live at home with your parents? Some people grow up and move out. So will humanity if it will be responsible. Sure. But imagine you have destroyed your home by your own carelessness. Do you think it is proper to abandon your old home, for a new one. What guarantee is there that you will not mess this new home just as you did with the old one? The idea is that only if you can fix the mess you have caused in the first place, you can be expected to maintain a new home... >Should the colonists have stayed in Europe and tried to solve their social problems first before moving over the ocean to the Americas? What did it cost moving over the ocean to Americas? It did took resources that could be used to fix problems in Europe and used it for their journey? You see, here what being advocated is that massive amounts of money, be spent for a cause that extremely improbably, using a solution that is extremely unlikely to work. Now this massive amounts of money, could be allocated to implement real solution to real problems we are having right now..

bhaak 9y ago
> Sure. But imagine you have destroyed your home by your own carelessness. Do you think it is proper to abandon your old home, for a new one. What guarantee is there that you will not mess this new home just as you did with the old one? The idea is that only if you can fix the mess you have caused in the first place, you can be expected to maintain a new home... But the problem here is that we are not the only ones that could wreck our home. The next dinosaur asteroid that hits or supervolcano that erupts will take out us and lots of the other higher lifeforms on Earth. > Now this massive amounts of money, could be allocated to implement real solution to real problems we are having right now.. I agree that this money might be better allocated for project with a shorter time horizon and do also good. Long term, I'm not so sure though. But I also believe that it probably wouldn't be applied to other projects. Too much money is wasted on senseless stuff, at least in this case, it's going to something that inspires people and has a valuable goal.
- babyrainbow 9y ago
  > we are not the only ones that could wreck our home. The next dinosaur asteroid that hits or supervolcano that erupts will take out us and lots of the other higher lifeforms on Earth. Sure, there are all kinds of apocalyptic events. But we don't have to luxury to address them right now. See the following from https://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/sl9/back2.html https://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/sl9/back2.html >An individual's chance of being killed by a meteorite is small, but the risk increases with the size of the impacting comet or asteroid, with the greatest risk associated with global catastrophes resulting from impacts of objects larger than 1 kilometer. NASA knows of no asteroid or comet currently on a collision course with Earth, so the probability of a major collision is quite small. In fact, as best as we can tell, no large object is likely to strike the Earth any time in the next several hundred years. To be able to better calculate the statistics, astronomers need to detect as many of the near-Earth objects as possible. It's likely that we could identify a threatening near-Earth object large enough to potentially cause catastrophic changes in the Earth's environment, and most astronomers believe that a systematic approach to studying asteroids and comets that pass close to the Earth makes good sense. It's too late for the dinosaurs, but today astonomers are conducting ever-increasing searches to identify all of the larger objects which pose an impact danger to Earth. So instead of going to mars, isn't it much cheaper and easier to detect and destroy that kinds of asteroids as early as possible? Look. I like the idea of a backup home. But I don't really think this Elon Musk character is genuine. That his intentions are really taking human beings to mars. Think about what happened with Hyperloop. I would have understood if he had attempted, ie invested in it, attempt to build a prototype, and failed. But no. He just threw some ideas and disappeared from the picture. What do you think about it? Isn't that relavant at all?
  - Cogito 9y ago
    You've mentioned the hyper loop thing a few times now, what exactly are you upset about? He wrote, and had some engineers from his company help write, a proposal for a high speed transit system. Some companies have been started to try and develop the technology, which to my knowledge Musk is not involved in. Additionally, SpaceX has already hosted a student competition for hyperloop pods and built a test track for it. By all appearances they seem intent on continuing that. So what exactly happened to hyperloop, and why does that relevant to a discussion on plans to go to mars?
    - babyrainbow 9y ago
      >what exactly are you upset about? Upset? I am not upset about anything. If anyone is upset, it seems to be the fanboys who come across people like me ( I mean, My account has gone from 170 to 140 points by participating in these threads. That is a whopping 30 downvotes for being skeptical!) >So what exactly happened to hyperloop, and why does that relevant to a discussion on plans to go to mars? I don't know what happened to hyperloop. My question is simple. If Elon Musk thought the idea could work, why would not he pursue it himself, or if he is too busy, why not at least fund a prototype (you don't seriously consider the "student competition" to be in the same league, right?) Do you have a straight answer to this question? > why does that relevant to a discussion on plans to go to mars? It is not relevant to the idea of going to mars. But it is relevant when considering the credibility of the person who is proposing this idea.
      - Cogito 9y ago
        >> why does that relevant to a discussion on plans to go to mars? >It is not relevant to the idea of going to mars. But it is relevant when considering the credibility of the person who is proposing this idea. The idea either holds weight or does not. If there were evidence of Musk, for example, raising money for a hyperloop and then stealing all of it I would say - "don't give this man money, for he will steal it all!" - but I still would not have discussed plans of going to mars. > I am not upset about anything. Upset was perhaps a poor choice; what I mean is, what is it about the hyperloop that brings you to raise it as a point so many times. It seems as though you feel something shady or untoward has been done, and I am wondering what that is. > If Elon Musk thought the idea could work, why would not he pursue it himself, or if he is too busy, why not at least fund a prototype (you don't seriously consider the "student competition" to be in the same league, right?) Do you have a straight answer to this question? First, why would you even think I should have an answer to this question? I can think of a few reasons why Musk hasn't done what you think he should have, even though I am unsure what exactly you think he should have done, but in any case I don't know his mind and as such cannot explain his (in)actions. In any case let's list a couple of arguments - People can have ideas, even really good ones, and simply tell them to the world and do no more. It would be a poorer world were this not the case. - Musk might not have the ability to fund it himself, and that is fine. - He may believe the best way to get the hyperloop into existence is through other companies pursuing it (which is already happening) - He may believe that the main thing holding back the industry is technical workers, in which case a student competition is well placed to produce more of them. - He may believe that the main thing holding back the hyperloop is building above ground tunnels with the logistical issues that holds. He is attempting to reduce the cost of building below ground tunnels. So honestly, what are you trying to argue here? Is it that you can't judge an idea without also judging the actions of anyone associated with that idea? Is it that you can't tell people about an idea without also acting on that idea yourself? Is it that you don't like Musk and you don't want anyone else to like hime either, or perhaps that you don't like the fanboys and wish they would shut up? Maybe it's something else, but in any case I still don't see the relevance to mars.

bhaak 9y ago

> Sure. But imagine you have destroyed your home by your own carelessness. Do you think it is proper to abandon your old home, for a new one. What guarantee is there that you will not mess this new home just as you did with the old one? The idea is that only if you can fix the mess you have caused in the first place, you can be expected to maintain a new home... But the problem here is that we are not the only ones that could wreck our home. The next dinosaur asteroid that hits or supervolcano that erupts will take out us and lots of the other higher lifeforms on Earth. > Now this massive amounts of money, could be allocated to implement real solution to real problems we are having right now.. I agree that this money might be better allocated for project with a shorter time horizon and do also good. Long term, I'm not so sure though. But I also believe that it probably wouldn't be applied to other projects. Too much money is wasted on senseless stuff, at least in this case, it's going to something that inspires people and has a valuable goal.

babyrainbow 9y ago
> we are not the only ones that could wreck our home. The next dinosaur asteroid that hits or supervolcano that erupts will take out us and lots of the other higher lifeforms on Earth. Sure, there are all kinds of apocalyptic events. But we don't have to luxury to address them right now. See the following from https://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/sl9/back2.html https://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/sl9/back2.html >An individual's chance of being killed by a meteorite is small, but the risk increases with the size of the impacting comet or asteroid, with the greatest risk associated with global catastrophes resulting from impacts of objects larger than 1 kilometer. NASA knows of no asteroid or comet currently on a collision course with Earth, so the probability of a major collision is quite small. In fact, as best as we can tell, no large object is likely to strike the Earth any time in the next several hundred years. To be able to better calculate the statistics, astronomers need to detect as many of the near-Earth objects as possible. It's likely that we could identify a threatening near-Earth object large enough to potentially cause catastrophic changes in the Earth's environment, and most astronomers believe that a systematic approach to studying asteroids and comets that pass close to the Earth makes good sense. It's too late for the dinosaurs, but today astonomers are conducting ever-increasing searches to identify all of the larger objects which pose an impact danger to Earth. So instead of going to mars, isn't it much cheaper and easier to detect and destroy that kinds of asteroids as early as possible? Look. I like the idea of a backup home. But I don't really think this Elon Musk character is genuine. That his intentions are really taking human beings to mars. Think about what happened with Hyperloop. I would have understood if he had attempted, ie invested in it, attempt to build a prototype, and failed. But no. He just threw some ideas and disappeared from the picture. What do you think about it? Isn't that relavant at all?
- Cogito 9y ago
  You've mentioned the hyper loop thing a few times now, what exactly are you upset about? He wrote, and had some engineers from his company help write, a proposal for a high speed transit system. Some companies have been started to try and develop the technology, which to my knowledge Musk is not involved in. Additionally, SpaceX has already hosted a student competition for hyperloop pods and built a test track for it. By all appearances they seem intent on continuing that. So what exactly happened to hyperloop, and why does that relevant to a discussion on plans to go to mars?
  - babyrainbow 9y ago
    >what exactly are you upset about? Upset? I am not upset about anything. If anyone is upset, it seems to be the fanboys who come across people like me ( I mean, My account has gone from 170 to 140 points by participating in these threads. That is a whopping 30 downvotes for being skeptical!) >So what exactly happened to hyperloop, and why does that relevant to a discussion on plans to go to mars? I don't know what happened to hyperloop. My question is simple. If Elon Musk thought the idea could work, why would not he pursue it himself, or if he is too busy, why not at least fund a prototype (you don't seriously consider the "student competition" to be in the same league, right?) Do you have a straight answer to this question? > why does that relevant to a discussion on plans to go to mars? It is not relevant to the idea of going to mars. But it is relevant when considering the credibility of the person who is proposing this idea.
    - Cogito 9y ago
      >> why does that relevant to a discussion on plans to go to mars? >It is not relevant to the idea of going to mars. But it is relevant when considering the credibility of the person who is proposing this idea. The idea either holds weight or does not. If there were evidence of Musk, for example, raising money for a hyperloop and then stealing all of it I would say - "don't give this man money, for he will steal it all!" - but I still would not have discussed plans of going to mars. > I am not upset about anything. Upset was perhaps a poor choice; what I mean is, what is it about the hyperloop that brings you to raise it as a point so many times. It seems as though you feel something shady or untoward has been done, and I am wondering what that is. > If Elon Musk thought the idea could work, why would not he pursue it himself, or if he is too busy, why not at least fund a prototype (you don't seriously consider the "student competition" to be in the same league, right?) Do you have a straight answer to this question? First, why would you even think I should have an answer to this question? I can think of a few reasons why Musk hasn't done what you think he should have, even though I am unsure what exactly you think he should have done, but in any case I don't know his mind and as such cannot explain his (in)actions. In any case let's list a couple of arguments - People can have ideas, even really good ones, and simply tell them to the world and do no more. It would be a poorer world were this not the case. - Musk might not have the ability to fund it himself, and that is fine. - He may believe the best way to get the hyperloop into existence is through other companies pursuing it (which is already happening) - He may believe that the main thing holding back the industry is technical workers, in which case a student competition is well placed to produce more of them. - He may believe that the main thing holding back the hyperloop is building above ground tunnels with the logistical issues that holds. He is attempting to reduce the cost of building below ground tunnels. So honestly, what are you trying to argue here? Is it that you can't judge an idea without also judging the actions of anyone associated with that idea? Is it that you can't tell people about an idea without also acting on that idea yourself? Is it that you don't like Musk and you don't want anyone else to like hime either, or perhaps that you don't like the fanboys and wish they would shut up? Maybe it's something else, but in any case I still don't see the relevance to mars.