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"I don't fully understand why more effort is not put into a hardware solution, where roads are simply marked up for self-driving vehicles, e.g. magnets lining t

"I don't fully understand why more effort is not put into a hardware solution, where roads are simply marked up for self-driving vehicles, e.g. magnets lining the lanes or something like that." How would "magnets" be any improvement over visual markings? Is there some sensor that can track magnets at greater distance, or with greater reliability than visual markings? Besides, how many millions of miles of road would need to be equipped with these magnets around the world? What would that cost? Would it be acceptable that autonomous cars could only drive on roads that have been properly equipped? It's worth remembering that self-driving AI does not solely rely on lane markings to navigate. It also can see the road edge, follow other vehicles, and cross-reference with a (learned/crowd-sourced) navigation model of the laneway. Additional sensor types, like LIDAR and radar, are often used in addition to cameras. You can see a lot of this at work, in a complex London traffic environment, in this demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfRqNAhAe6c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfRqNAhAe6c

tmzt 9y ago
A simple RF transmitter in new versions of the existing reflector discs would do it. It wouldn't need to do anything but "ping", the battery could last for years. You could even have a mechanism to disable it when the lines are repainted, though normally roads that use the existing version of these reflectors would have them removed when moving lines. The transmitter would have to be powerful enough to go through a small amount of snow in some states. The question is can we get the car companies to agree on a standard for this? Would it make sense to put it in the frequency range allocated for vehicle radar systems? What we get instead is an attempt to define the whole system de jure, including full V2V protocols and specifications.
- Reason077 9y ago
  But what is the actual advantage of this RF system? Why is this any better than just using a camera and image processing? OK, RF would mean the lane geometry can be "seen" through all weather conditions (fog, snow). But so does precise-enough mapping/fleet learning. Neither would help in detecting traffic and transitory obstacles that might be hidden by that fog - you still need other sensors for that! A "safe" autonomous vehicle should perhaps simply slow down in adverse weather conditions just as a human driver would. Even without additional sensors, their ability to see through snow and fog is certainly no worse than a humans.
  - dzhiurgis 9y ago
    We need transmitters in licence plates and on street signs too.
    - Reason077 9y ago
      Why? So they can be "seen" through rain, fog and snow? Reading road signs optically is a solved problem. Mobileye and similar systems have been doing this for a decade or more.
      - dzhiurgis 9y ago
        Well you answered your question. Further, it would help learning in limited visibility, although they can already do it by remembering locations of signs (people do that, do autonomous cars store city/state/worldwide road data?)
Animats 9y ago
"I don't fully understand why more effort is not put into a hardware solution, where roads are simply marked up for self-driving vehicles, e.g. magnets lining the lanes or something like that." Volvo is plugging for magnets in roads in Sweden, so they can find lanes in the snow. It might happen, because it can also be used for snowplow guidance. In heavy-snow areas, posts, poles, and even over-road arrows (Japan uses this in Hokkaido) are placed to provide guidance. It's not intended to replace vision and LIDAR, just as additional guidance hints for bad conditions.

tmzt 9y ago

A simple RF transmitter in new versions of the existing reflector discs would do it. It wouldn't need to do anything but "ping", the battery could last for years. You could even have a mechanism to disable it when the lines are repainted, though normally roads that use the existing version of these reflectors would have them removed when moving lines. The transmitter would have to be powerful enough to go through a small amount of snow in some states. The question is can we get the car companies to agree on a standard for this? Would it make sense to put it in the frequency range allocated for vehicle radar systems? What we get instead is an attempt to define the whole system de jure, including full V2V protocols and specifications.

Reason077 9y ago
But what is the actual advantage of this RF system? Why is this any better than just using a camera and image processing? OK, RF would mean the lane geometry can be "seen" through all weather conditions (fog, snow). But so does precise-enough mapping/fleet learning. Neither would help in detecting traffic and transitory obstacles that might be hidden by that fog - you still need other sensors for that! A "safe" autonomous vehicle should perhaps simply slow down in adverse weather conditions just as a human driver would. Even without additional sensors, their ability to see through snow and fog is certainly no worse than a humans.
- dzhiurgis 9y ago
  We need transmitters in licence plates and on street signs too.
  - Reason077 9y ago
    Why? So they can be "seen" through rain, fog and snow? Reading road signs optically is a solved problem. Mobileye and similar systems have been doing this for a decade or more.
    - dzhiurgis 9y ago
      Well you answered your question. Further, it would help learning in limited visibility, although they can already do it by remembering locations of signs (people do that, do autonomous cars store city/state/worldwide road data?)

Animats 9y ago

"I don't fully understand why more effort is not put into a hardware solution, where roads are simply marked up for self-driving vehicles, e.g. magnets lining the lanes or something like that." Volvo is plugging for magnets in roads in Sweden, so they can find lanes in the snow. It might happen, because it can also be used for snowplow guidance. In heavy-snow areas, posts, poles, and even over-road arrows (Japan uses this in Hokkaido) are placed to provide guidance. It's not intended to replace vision and LIDAR, just as additional guidance hints for bad conditions.