5 ms·

Funny how there are people with much more money than Musk, who do absolutely nothing useful with it, but Musk draws criticism for details. Oh, why Mars, why not

by Eerie 9y ago

Funny how there are people with much more money than Musk, who do absolutely nothing useful with it, but Musk draws criticism for details. Oh, why Mars, why not Moon, or Ceres, or O'Neill cylinders, or lets colonize the Sahara desert first, or lets solve world hunger and poverty (which is a 100% political problem, not technological, BTW) blah, blah, blah, blah... Musk is doing SOMETHING, at least. The technology that SpaceX develops can and will be used for much more than just Elon's particular vision of Mars colony.

grondilu 9y ago
> Funny how there are people with much more money than Musk, who do absolutely nothing useful with it, but Musk draws criticism for details. There are other billionaires that do useful stuff. If they grab less attention it's probably because they are less controversial, and probably because what they make more sense. For instance, the breakthrough starship initiative, to remain in the space exploration domain, is also funded by a billionaire.
- prawn 9y ago
  probably because what they do makes more sense More sense than electric vehicles, solar tiles, solar chargers, space transport, etc? OP's point wasn't that there were no other billionaires doing something, but that billionaires exist doing very little to push humanity forward.
- sametmax 9y ago
  It's also because they are better at PR. Bill Gate is a terrible person but he is managing to make people believe is a saint these days.
  - paulddraper 9y ago
    What makes Bill Gates a terrible person these days?
    - valuearb 9y ago
      His haircut?
    - sametmax 9y ago
      This type of questions prove the PR works pretty well. I mean the guy ran a company that was a pattent troll, that corrupted governments and insulted people live. Then they created a foundation that only give away a few % of the money, investing the rest, so they can make money with paying less taxes. They were caught blatlanty investing in the weapon industry while promoting peace on earth. But hey, he is fighting malaria right ? I got malaria BTW. You know how ? I worked as a charity worker in africa. My first mission was for the Gate foundation through the MVP. Oh and 45% of the money never reached the project.
- lukas099 9y ago
  There are plenty of billionaires doing those other things, and only one Musk doing his thing. I don't see why we have to make value comparisons either way.
grondilu 9y ago
> Musk is doing SOMETHING, at least. If only he was planning on doing that with his own money, I'd be fine with it. People are free to waste their money however they want. But he can't. He plans on using public funds for this. That's a problem.
- jwfxpr 9y ago
  He allows for the likely possibility that government(s) will want to be a part of a civilization-altering grand enterprise, but he's not assuming it in his planning (at least, not in the paper here presented). He explicitly addresses costing and funding from private sources. Not wanting public funds to be spent this way is a perfectly reasonable position — and it is against your government that that assertion must be made, not the private citizen holding the blueprints.
  - babyrainbow 9y ago
    How can you trust the person after the farce called Hyperloop? Have he invested in it financially? Isn't it pretty clear that these "grand enterprises" are a cheap pr trick to stay relevant and attract more investor money to his other real businesses? I wouldn't have doubted if he had really followed through the Hyperloop thing. But after that, I wonder how anyone can fall for these things!
    - sametmax 9y ago
      The guys tackles among the hardest problems ever and you only see the failures ? The only way to not fuck up massively is to never do anything that matters.
      - babyrainbow 9y ago
        His failure? Has he invested in or attempted to build a prototype for Hyperloop funding it himself? if that is so, I wouldn't be doubting him now, even if he had failed..But I don't think that to be the case....
adekok 9y ago
> Musk is doing SOMETHING, at least. Me sitting in a corner and drinking is doing something. Me burning down my house is doing something. Neither actions are productive. Is Elon doing something productive? With cheap rockets, arguably yes. With colonizing Mars... it's less clear. > The technology that SpaceX develops can and will be used for much more than just Elon's particular vision of Mars colony. Like what? > Oh, why Mars, why not Moon, or Ceres, or O'Neill cylinders, or lets colonize the Sahara desert first, or lets solve world hunger and poverty (which is a 100% political problem, not technological, BTW) It's hard to solve political problems, because everyone knows how bad people can be. It's easy to dream about solving engineering problems. People have been doing it for millenia. We just build a bigger / better / faster / cooler thing than what we have right now! See? It's easy! I find it instructive that most of the "pro" arguments are based on dreams and hope. Most of the "con" arguments are "Have you seen how freaking difficult it is?" Dreams won't feed you in the cold, dark, airless, nights on Mars.
- farresito 9y ago
  Why is trying to colonize Mars not productive? How do you define productivity?
  - adekok 9y ago
    Spending billions to get a small number of people to a place which will likely kill them is not very productive. Cool, yes. Fulfilling dreams, yes. And whatever happened to having people support their position with logical arguments? Your comment is largely You need to prove why it isn't a good idea. No, it doesn't work like that. If you're in favor of society spending billions of dollars on something, it's up to you to demonstrate why that spending is better than the alternatives. Or, if you're a multi-billionare, spend your own money however you see fit, and don't take advice from random people on the net. And a side note... these comments seem to be unpopular. I'm not being mean or putting people down. I'm just explaining why Mars is expensive and likely not feaasible. But there are minimal counter-arguments which address my points. It's much easier to down-vote comments which you don't like, than to engage someone in order to understand why they disagree with you.
jncraton 9y ago
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_in_a_Republic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_in_a_Republic
endymi0n 9y ago
This. For about the cost of a NASA rocket testing facility that wasn't even used once [1], these guys built and flew not just the first fully private rocket ever but also an upgraded one that's competitive to the largest launchers currently on the market [2]. Just give these people some money, at least they're spending it efficiently. [1] http://swampland.time.com/2014/01/08/the-nasa-launchpad-to-nowhere/ http://swampland.time.com/2014/01/08/the-nasa-launchpad-to-n... [2] https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/14379/nasa-cost-estimating-and-falcon-9 https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/14379/nasa-cost-es...

by Eerie 9y ago

grondilu 9y ago

> Funny how there are people with much more money than Musk, who do absolutely nothing useful with it, but Musk draws criticism for details. There are other billionaires that do useful stuff. If they grab less attention it's probably because they are less controversial, and probably because what they make more sense. For instance, the breakthrough starship initiative, to remain in the space exploration domain, is also funded by a billionaire.

prawn 9y ago
probably because what they do makes more sense More sense than electric vehicles, solar tiles, solar chargers, space transport, etc? OP's point wasn't that there were no other billionaires doing something, but that billionaires exist doing very little to push humanity forward.
sametmax 9y ago
It's also because they are better at PR. Bill Gate is a terrible person but he is managing to make people believe is a saint these days.
- paulddraper 9y ago
  What makes Bill Gates a terrible person these days?
  - valuearb 9y ago
    His haircut?
  - sametmax 9y ago
    This type of questions prove the PR works pretty well. I mean the guy ran a company that was a pattent troll, that corrupted governments and insulted people live. Then they created a foundation that only give away a few % of the money, investing the rest, so they can make money with paying less taxes. They were caught blatlanty investing in the weapon industry while promoting peace on earth. But hey, he is fighting malaria right ? I got malaria BTW. You know how ? I worked as a charity worker in africa. My first mission was for the Gate foundation through the MVP. Oh and 45% of the money never reached the project.
lukas099 9y ago
There are plenty of billionaires doing those other things, and only one Musk doing his thing. I don't see why we have to make value comparisons either way.

grondilu 9y ago

> Musk is doing SOMETHING, at least. If only he was planning on doing that with his own money, I'd be fine with it. People are free to waste their money however they want. But he can't. He plans on using public funds for this. That's a problem.

jwfxpr 9y ago
He allows for the likely possibility that government(s) will want to be a part of a civilization-altering grand enterprise, but he's not assuming it in his planning (at least, not in the paper here presented). He explicitly addresses costing and funding from private sources. Not wanting public funds to be spent this way is a perfectly reasonable position — and it is against your government that that assertion must be made, not the private citizen holding the blueprints.
- babyrainbow 9y ago
  How can you trust the person after the farce called Hyperloop? Have he invested in it financially? Isn't it pretty clear that these "grand enterprises" are a cheap pr trick to stay relevant and attract more investor money to his other real businesses? I wouldn't have doubted if he had really followed through the Hyperloop thing. But after that, I wonder how anyone can fall for these things!
  - sametmax 9y ago
    The guys tackles among the hardest problems ever and you only see the failures ? The only way to not fuck up massively is to never do anything that matters.
    - babyrainbow 9y ago
      His failure? Has he invested in or attempted to build a prototype for Hyperloop funding it himself? if that is so, I wouldn't be doubting him now, even if he had failed..But I don't think that to be the case....

adekok 9y ago

> Musk is doing SOMETHING, at least. Me sitting in a corner and drinking is doing something. Me burning down my house is doing something. Neither actions are productive. Is Elon doing something productive? With cheap rockets, arguably yes. With colonizing Mars... it's less clear. > The technology that SpaceX develops can and will be used for much more than just Elon's particular vision of Mars colony. Like what? > Oh, why Mars, why not Moon, or Ceres, or O'Neill cylinders, or lets colonize the Sahara desert first, or lets solve world hunger and poverty (which is a 100% political problem, not technological, BTW) It's hard to solve political problems, because everyone knows how bad people can be. It's easy to dream about solving engineering problems. People have been doing it for millenia. We just build a bigger / better / faster / cooler thing than what we have right now! See? It's easy! I find it instructive that most of the "pro" arguments are based on dreams and hope. Most of the "con" arguments are "Have you seen how freaking difficult it is?" Dreams won't feed you in the cold, dark, airless, nights on Mars.

farresito 9y ago
Why is trying to colonize Mars not productive? How do you define productivity?
- adekok 9y ago
  Spending billions to get a small number of people to a place which will likely kill them is not very productive. Cool, yes. Fulfilling dreams, yes. And whatever happened to having people support their position with logical arguments? Your comment is largely You need to prove why it isn't a good idea. No, it doesn't work like that. If you're in favor of society spending billions of dollars on something, it's up to you to demonstrate why that spending is better than the alternatives. Or, if you're a multi-billionare, spend your own money however you see fit, and don't take advice from random people on the net. And a side note... these comments seem to be unpopular. I'm not being mean or putting people down. I'm just explaining why Mars is expensive and likely not feaasible. But there are minimal counter-arguments which address my points. It's much easier to down-vote comments which you don't like, than to engage someone in order to understand why they disagree with you.

jncraton 9y ago

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_in_a_Republic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_in_a_Republic

endymi0n 9y ago

This. For about the cost of a NASA rocket testing facility that wasn't even used once [1], these guys built and flew not just the first fully private rocket ever but also an upgraded one that's competitive to the largest launchers currently on the market [2]. Just give these people some money, at least they're spending it efficiently. [1] http://swampland.time.com/2014/01/08/the-nasa-launchpad-to-nowhere/ http://swampland.time.com/2014/01/08/the-nasa-launchpad-to-n... [2] https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/14379/nasa-cost-estimating-and-falcon-9 https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/14379/nasa-cost-es...