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Hand-waving is nice, but... Plants don't make air. Plants turn CO2 into O2. If there's no CO2, plants can't make O2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospher

by adekok 9y ago

Hand-waving is nice, but... Plants don't make air. Plants turn CO2 into O2. If there's no CO2, plants can't make O2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Mars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Mars There's 0.6% of the air of Earth. For all intents and purposes (i.e. human / plants), it's a vacuum. And the surface temperature isn't much better. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Mars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Mars -55C is common. An extreme heatwave at the equator is 20C. With lows of -153C. So no, plants don't grow in a vacuum, and they don't grow in -55C. Any greenhouse will have to be pressurized and sealed. This means that the main purpose of plants will be food, not O2 regeneration. Algae do O2 generation better and more efficiently than plants. There is likely enough water for a small colony, if you can get to it, melt it, and it's in the right place. > We're talking about a colony of a million people or more. With that kind of workforce available, bootstrapping an industrial complex is not insurmountable. I suspect you severely underestimate the complexity of our industrial system. It's very hard to create life-support on Mars for a million people. And a million people are nowhere near enough to create a modern industrial base, even with support from Earth.

rmah 9y ago
I vaguely recall reading that a population of apx 200mil is required to maintain a modern industrial society with all bells and whistles (e.g. semiconductor fabs, rockets, etc).
InclinedPlane 9y ago
Mars has abundant CO2, Water (ice), Nitrogen, and even phosphorous. Those are the big things you need to grow food. What is this silliness of "for all intents and purposes it's a vacuum" and "plants don't grow in a vacuum"? Humans can build structures that hold pressure, we can build greenhouses on Mars. That's where we'll grow crops and feed the population of Mars. Please don't pollute the comments here if you're not even going to bother with the bare minimum of intellectual seriousness. Yes we can concentrate the atmosphere of Mars to higher pressures, this isn't even hard. Yes we can build structures to grow crops in. Yes we can keep structures insulated and heated to maintain higher temperatures than ambient outside conditions, as is done routinely across the globe every second of the day on Earth. Is that the limit of your straw-man argument here or do you have anything of substance to say?
- adekok 9y ago
  > Please don't pollute the comments here if you're not even going to bother with the bare minimum of intellectual seriousness. Ah, yes. The new HN. Everyone else is stupid and lazy. > Yes we can keep structures insulated and heated to maintain higher temperatures than ambient outside conditions, as is done routinely across the globe every second of the day on Earth. Please show me on-Earth greenhouses which are pressurized to 14PSI over external. Constructing a greenhouse isn't hard. Constructing a pressurized greenhouse on Mars is rather a lot harder. > Is that the limit of your straw-man argument here or do you have anything of substance to say? Yes... everyone else is stupid and lazy. And has bad intentions. And isn't honest. Welcome to the new HN. You could take my words at face value. But it's easier (and more intellectually dishonest) to assume the stupidest possible interpretation, and then attack them for your own inadequacies.

by adekok 9y ago

rmah 9y ago

I vaguely recall reading that a population of apx 200mil is required to maintain a modern industrial society with all bells and whistles (e.g. semiconductor fabs, rockets, etc).

InclinedPlane 9y ago

Mars has abundant CO2, Water (ice), Nitrogen, and even phosphorous. Those are the big things you need to grow food. What is this silliness of "for all intents and purposes it's a vacuum" and "plants don't grow in a vacuum"? Humans can build structures that hold pressure, we can build greenhouses on Mars. That's where we'll grow crops and feed the population of Mars. Please don't pollute the comments here if you're not even going to bother with the bare minimum of intellectual seriousness. Yes we can concentrate the atmosphere of Mars to higher pressures, this isn't even hard. Yes we can build structures to grow crops in. Yes we can keep structures insulated and heated to maintain higher temperatures than ambient outside conditions, as is done routinely across the globe every second of the day on Earth. Is that the limit of your straw-man argument here or do you have anything of substance to say?

adekok 9y ago
> Please don't pollute the comments here if you're not even going to bother with the bare minimum of intellectual seriousness. Ah, yes. The new HN. Everyone else is stupid and lazy. > Yes we can keep structures insulated and heated to maintain higher temperatures than ambient outside conditions, as is done routinely across the globe every second of the day on Earth. Please show me on-Earth greenhouses which are pressurized to 14PSI over external. Constructing a greenhouse isn't hard. Constructing a pressurized greenhouse on Mars is rather a lot harder. > Is that the limit of your straw-man argument here or do you have anything of substance to say? Yes... everyone else is stupid and lazy. And has bad intentions. And isn't honest. Welcome to the new HN. You could take my words at face value. But it's easier (and more intellectually dishonest) to assume the stupidest possible interpretation, and then attack them for your own inadequacies.