7 ms·

Critical iPhone 4 Issues and Complaints Are Mounting

68 points by MykalM 16y ago

geuis 16y ago
So lots of reports of defective phones that haven't even been released to the general public? Let's wait at least a week for a few tens of thousands of people to have them in hand across the US and can report in.
- matthew-wegner 16y ago
  There were 600,000 pre-orders. Apple confirmed early delivery of online orders (July 23rd instead of 24th). I'd say there are a few number of iPhones in the wild now: http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/22/walmart-receives-iphone-4s-apple-confirms-early-iphone-4-deliveries-on-june-23rd/ http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/22/walmart-receives-iphone-... Your logic is backwards, anyway; I'd be more worried if there were lots of reported problems with only a few iPhones in the market.
  - pyre 16y ago
    I'm assuming s/July/June/g ? Otherwise I'm confused. I'm not following the iPhone 4 coverage too closely.
siglesias 16y ago
What is perhaps most intriguing here, especially about the antenna problem is that in the field tests they were probably using that iPhone 3G disguise case that Gizmodo revealed Apple testers were using. What's interesting there is that that case would impede discovery of this hand contact problem because the hand wouldn't thus short the two side antenae together as a case would be over it. I'm hoping that these were thoroughly tested on Apple's campus without case because on the surface this looks like a deep flaw in what Jobs vaunted as a revolutionary product design, signaling that Apple was it's own worst enemy in providing inadequate testing conditions in pursuit of it's trademark secrecy.
- weaksauce 16y ago
  You could probably fix it with some insulator such as clear tape or some kind of screen protector like material.
  - matthew-wegner 16y ago
    Or Apple's "bumper" case, and 1st-party accessories are a rare move for them.
    - jfager 16y ago
      1st-party accessories are a rare move for them. What? They've had tons of first-party accessories.
  - jcl 16y ago
    I've heard it's also been tested to work inside the shell of an iPhone 3GS.
- nixme 16y ago
  I was discussing the new iPhone with a friend from a competing hardware manufacturer the day after the original announcement and he was surprised about the external antenna design. He said the industry generally shies away from exposing antenna metal since skin is lossy and grounded and that even a minor dent or crack from a fall could change the reception characteristics dramatically. Using a case may basically become a requirement.
  - MWinther 16y ago
    Engadget reports that one of their units is having this particular problem, but their testing unit does not. To me, that sounds like something is wrong with a number of the first units released, rather than a fundamental design flaw. Either way, it can't be the way Apple would like to start this release, since they want to make units that go to new customers rather than to replace units already bought. I just hope they find the problem quickly and are open about the issue.
jkahn 16y ago
Wow. If this is a hardware issue, it will cost a bomb to fix and delay production by weeks. Ouch.
- ahk 16y ago
  No, Apple will make even more money by selling those overpriced plastic shells.
aschobel 16y ago
Good video on Mac Rumors showing this issue: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=948533 http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=948533 Phone 4 Drops Calls when Left Corner is Touched
- ubernostrum 16y ago
  Tried it, can't reproduce it. Or any of the other "sure-fire" configurations people have claimed. If it really is a hardware issue, it's probably due to a defect in some batches of phones. But for now I'm sticking to the most likely explanation, which is just that cell phones are finicky little beasties and people are quick to spot patterns where none exist.
  - watty 16y ago
    I'm pretty sure large batches of phones that lose signal when held is a defect. I'm glad you can't reproduce it, it means that not all phones are defective. Many of the videos show the phones going from full bars to 1 or zero. This is not finicky but a defect.
- Gary_W_Longsine 16y ago
  This video shows one iPhone calling another when the phones are within a few inches, as close as 1 inch apart. It's frankly amazing that the call completes, and doesn't drop more often. This video isn't particularly reliable evidence of a problem. My own experience indicates that there is a high probability of serious radio frequency interference between two cell phones that are closer than about 10 or 12 inches to each other. Older phone models often had trouble within about 3 feet of another cell phone.
devin 16y ago
I do not have this issue. In fact, I think it is a software problem. I made a call with perfectly clarity with 0 bars. It's fine, people. Quit making a huge deal about nothing. I bet more than 50 percent of the people voting on these answers are people without friggen iPhone 4s. Wanna know where the people with iPhone 4s are? They're playing with their new toys.
- watty 16y ago
  I have a blackberry - not a fanboy. I've watched multiple videos where data transfer rates dropped significantly when the antennae are touched in the same way making me think this is not just a software problem. Either way, software problems are big too - this is what tech blogs do. edit: go check out Apple fanboy blogs/forums... you'll see panic there as well.
  - watty 16y ago
    Why did I get down voted? Even IGM is having problems with their new iPhone and it does cause dropped calls: http://www.insanely-great.com/news.php?id=11149 http://www.insanely-great.com/news.php?id=11149
    - MWinther 16y ago
      If I were to venture a guess, I'd say that the constant fanboy angle on practically all Apple stories a) gets tiresome and b) takes away from the discussion of the article at hand.
    - Gary_W_Longsine 16y ago
      You were probably down-voted because you committed a basic error in logic. Every single iPhone 4 is running the exact same software, iOS 4, so you contributed noise to the discussion, not insight. You wrote: "I've watched multiple videos where data transfer rates dropped significantly when the antennae are touched in the same way making me think this is not just a software problem."
cstross 16y ago
As for a circular yellow tint appearing on a retina, maybe we should nick the medical fraternity's term for that: retinitis pigmentosa!
- MrFoof 16y ago
  I'm trying to think of an Apple IPS display that hasn't had this issue to some extent. The iPhone4. The 27-inch iMac. The 24-inch LED display. My 2005-era 23" HD Cinema Display. This is a manufacturing issue in which the multiple laminates which make up the display weren't perfectly sealed together. So it's possible for the display to pass initial quality control checks, but the reality is they're in the process of separating a bit. Odds are it'll slowly continue to separate over time, making the spot grow larger. Apple has been hit or miss over replacing devices over the issue. On my Cinema Display - which was $1800 at the time - I received multiple (refurbished) replacements at the time, all of which exhibited the same issue. Eventually they gave up. Now the spot is about 2 square inches in size after 5 1/2 years. However there have been cases where replacement has been flatly denied and the customer was told there wasn't a problem.
  - Gary_W_Longsine 16y ago
    The issue with iPhone 4's "yellow spots" may have a simple explanation. Users at Apple's forums have reported that the issue just "went away". Perhaps this post at the Apple Insider discussion forum sheds light on what's happening: -- quote -- by user: austingaijin The yellow blotches will disappear Apple is using a bonding agent called Organofunctional Silane Z-6011 to bond the layers of glass. Apparently, Apple (or more likely Foxconn) is shipping these products so quickly that the evaporation process is not complete. However, after one or two days of use, especially with the screen on, will complete the evaporation process and the yellow "blotches" will disappear. How do I know? I was involved in pitching Z-6011 to Apple. -- end quote--
tumult 16y ago
You only hear people complaining about something on the internet when it doesn't work. So it always sounds like every product launch, ever, is a complete failure. Apple's especially, since they're high-profile. So here's an opposing anecdote for you: my iPhone 4 is completely fine. No problems at all.
- Kilimanjaro 16y ago
  Perhaps complains sponsored by the competition?
  - stcredzero 16y ago
    Companies have attempted positive astro-turfing. The negative counterpart would seem to be easier, since people aften fear the worst, so FUD is an easier sell. This is probably going on all the time. I think it's only effective on marginal products, though. If something's going to succeed, then it makes no difference. EDIT: I am something of a marginal case, though. I have a 1st generation 8GB iPhone. I keep wishing there was some way for me to have a carrier that's not AT&T, to have pre-paid calls & data, to be on Verizon's excellent network, to not have to deal with unlocking and jailbreaking and iTunes upgrade paranoia, to be able to put in a different SIM when I travel overseas, etc... Right now, I am figuring out a way to get my hands on a Canadian iPhone. The though occurs to me: why don't I just get an Android phone? I already own two perfectly good iOS test platforms.
jonknee 16y ago
And now we know why other phone manufacturers haven't put the antenna on the outside.
sounddust 16y ago
The original iPhone had an aluminum backing, with a small black band that ran horizontally along the bottom of the back of the phone. If you covered this area while using the phone, you'd find that your EDGE speed would drop dramatically, and you would lose signal strength. Once you knew this, you had the choice between avoiding this area with your hands for maximum network performance, or holding the phone exactly how you liked and having reduced performance. The iPhone 4 (mine, at least) has the exact same issue, and it's almost in the exact same place, the only difference being the reasoning behind why it happens (in this case, it seems to be about bridging two pieces of metal with your hands), and how it can be avoided (buying a case might help with the iPhone 4, whereas it didn't with the iPhone 2G). I've owned many other phones that were sensitive to where you held them, in fact I think every phone I've ever owned without an antenna that sticks out is sensitive to this problem to some degree. I had to "train" myself not to cup my hand behind the top-backing of the Nokia I had before my iPhone. And now I'm already "trained" from holding my iPhone that I don't touch the bottom left of the phone when I talk anyway. It's not a big deal, just something to get used to (and it might turn out that a case will resolve it, which can't be said about many other phones with this issue). It is a legitimate "con" when determining whether to buy the phone, but it doesn't deserve all the ridiculous comments about how the phone is somehow flawed because of this. (And just to give some more specific details of how this affects my phone: if I put pressure on the bottom-left corner of the phone with my hand where the seam is, the signal strength drops: by 1-2 bars if I hold it normally, or all the way to 1 bar if I give it a death grip. In either case, the calls don't seem to drop).
- khafra 16y ago
  If you use their Apple-branded case, the little rubber band that goes around the outside edge, does that fix the problem?
  - sounddust 16y ago
    I don't know because it doesn't seem to be in stock anywhere yet. (An odd mistake on Apple's part, as you certainly want all the accessories to arrive on the day that people buy their phone, otherwise they're much less likely to buy them).
nullproc 16y ago
from the folks who could not reproduce the reception issue, i would be curious to know whether your body was grounded or not. for example, were you wearing sneakers with a rubber sole. did you have your free hand in your pocket or not touching something conductive? what would happen if you tried the same activity barefoot, or while you were touching a faucet or anything else that may be grounded. i'd be curious if individuals body's are, in-fact, changing the impedance of the antenna and rendering it less effective, or if its a combinaton of factors that contribute to the issue.
- ubernostrum 16y ago
  I stood up on a carpet floor, barefoot, holding the phone in my left hand in the "guaranteed to lose reception" position. And didn't lose reception. Repeated on tile, didn't lose reception. Repeated touching various conductive and non-conductive objects. Didn't lose reception. As I've been saying since last night: if it's a defect, it's most likely a defect in some batches of phones and not fundamental to the design/present in all of them.
jamesseda 16y ago
RF Happens
nooneelse 16y ago
Another demo video, using a more stable, conductive test sample, a key: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvH-i7rKPJc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvH-i7rKPJc

68 points by MykalM 16y ago

geuis 16y ago

So lots of reports of defective phones that haven't even been released to the general public? Let's wait at least a week for a few tens of thousands of people to have them in hand across the US and can report in.

matthew-wegner 16y ago
There were 600,000 pre-orders. Apple confirmed early delivery of online orders (July 23rd instead of 24th). I'd say there are a few number of iPhones in the wild now: http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/22/walmart-receives-iphone-4s-apple-confirms-early-iphone-4-deliveries-on-june-23rd/ http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/22/walmart-receives-iphone-... Your logic is backwards, anyway; I'd be more worried if there were lots of reported problems with only a few iPhones in the market.
- pyre 16y ago
  I'm assuming s/July/June/g ? Otherwise I'm confused. I'm not following the iPhone 4 coverage too closely.

siglesias 16y ago

What is perhaps most intriguing here, especially about the antenna problem is that in the field tests they were probably using that iPhone 3G disguise case that Gizmodo revealed Apple testers were using. What's interesting there is that that case would impede discovery of this hand contact problem because the hand wouldn't thus short the two side antenae together as a case would be over it. I'm hoping that these were thoroughly tested on Apple's campus without case because on the surface this looks like a deep flaw in what Jobs vaunted as a revolutionary product design, signaling that Apple was it's own worst enemy in providing inadequate testing conditions in pursuit of it's trademark secrecy.

weaksauce 16y ago
You could probably fix it with some insulator such as clear tape or some kind of screen protector like material.
- matthew-wegner 16y ago
  Or Apple's "bumper" case, and 1st-party accessories are a rare move for them.
  - jfager 16y ago
    1st-party accessories are a rare move for them. What? They've had tons of first-party accessories.
- jcl 16y ago
  I've heard it's also been tested to work inside the shell of an iPhone 3GS.
nixme 16y ago
I was discussing the new iPhone with a friend from a competing hardware manufacturer the day after the original announcement and he was surprised about the external antenna design. He said the industry generally shies away from exposing antenna metal since skin is lossy and grounded and that even a minor dent or crack from a fall could change the reception characteristics dramatically. Using a case may basically become a requirement.
- MWinther 16y ago
  Engadget reports that one of their units is having this particular problem, but their testing unit does not. To me, that sounds like something is wrong with a number of the first units released, rather than a fundamental design flaw. Either way, it can't be the way Apple would like to start this release, since they want to make units that go to new customers rather than to replace units already bought. I just hope they find the problem quickly and are open about the issue.

jkahn 16y ago

Wow. If this is a hardware issue, it will cost a bomb to fix and delay production by weeks. Ouch.

ahk 16y ago
No, Apple will make even more money by selling those overpriced plastic shells.

aschobel 16y ago

Good video on Mac Rumors showing this issue: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=948533 http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=948533 Phone 4 Drops Calls when Left Corner is Touched

ubernostrum 16y ago
Tried it, can't reproduce it. Or any of the other "sure-fire" configurations people have claimed. If it really is a hardware issue, it's probably due to a defect in some batches of phones. But for now I'm sticking to the most likely explanation, which is just that cell phones are finicky little beasties and people are quick to spot patterns where none exist.
- watty 16y ago
  I'm pretty sure large batches of phones that lose signal when held is a defect. I'm glad you can't reproduce it, it means that not all phones are defective. Many of the videos show the phones going from full bars to 1 or zero. This is not finicky but a defect.
Gary_W_Longsine 16y ago
This video shows one iPhone calling another when the phones are within a few inches, as close as 1 inch apart. It's frankly amazing that the call completes, and doesn't drop more often. This video isn't particularly reliable evidence of a problem. My own experience indicates that there is a high probability of serious radio frequency interference between two cell phones that are closer than about 10 or 12 inches to each other. Older phone models often had trouble within about 3 feet of another cell phone.

devin 16y ago

I do not have this issue. In fact, I think it is a software problem. I made a call with perfectly clarity with 0 bars. It's fine, people. Quit making a huge deal about nothing. I bet more than 50 percent of the people voting on these answers are people without friggen iPhone 4s. Wanna know where the people with iPhone 4s are? They're playing with their new toys.

watty 16y ago
I have a blackberry - not a fanboy. I've watched multiple videos where data transfer rates dropped significantly when the antennae are touched in the same way making me think this is not just a software problem. Either way, software problems are big too - this is what tech blogs do. edit: go check out Apple fanboy blogs/forums... you'll see panic there as well.
- watty 16y ago
  Why did I get down voted? Even IGM is having problems with their new iPhone and it does cause dropped calls: http://www.insanely-great.com/news.php?id=11149 http://www.insanely-great.com/news.php?id=11149
  - MWinther 16y ago
    If I were to venture a guess, I'd say that the constant fanboy angle on practically all Apple stories a) gets tiresome and b) takes away from the discussion of the article at hand.
  - Gary_W_Longsine 16y ago
    You were probably down-voted because you committed a basic error in logic. Every single iPhone 4 is running the exact same software, iOS 4, so you contributed noise to the discussion, not insight. You wrote: "I've watched multiple videos where data transfer rates dropped significantly when the antennae are touched in the same way making me think this is not just a software problem."

cstross 16y ago

As for a circular yellow tint appearing on a retina, maybe we should nick the medical fraternity's term for that: retinitis pigmentosa!

MrFoof 16y ago
I'm trying to think of an Apple IPS display that hasn't had this issue to some extent. The iPhone4. The 27-inch iMac. The 24-inch LED display. My 2005-era 23" HD Cinema Display. This is a manufacturing issue in which the multiple laminates which make up the display weren't perfectly sealed together. So it's possible for the display to pass initial quality control checks, but the reality is they're in the process of separating a bit. Odds are it'll slowly continue to separate over time, making the spot grow larger. Apple has been hit or miss over replacing devices over the issue. On my Cinema Display - which was $1800 at the time - I received multiple (refurbished) replacements at the time, all of which exhibited the same issue. Eventually they gave up. Now the spot is about 2 square inches in size after 5 1/2 years. However there have been cases where replacement has been flatly denied and the customer was told there wasn't a problem.
- Gary_W_Longsine 16y ago
  The issue with iPhone 4's "yellow spots" may have a simple explanation. Users at Apple's forums have reported that the issue just "went away". Perhaps this post at the Apple Insider discussion forum sheds light on what's happening: -- quote -- by user: austingaijin The yellow blotches will disappear Apple is using a bonding agent called Organofunctional Silane Z-6011 to bond the layers of glass. Apparently, Apple (or more likely Foxconn) is shipping these products so quickly that the evaporation process is not complete. However, after one or two days of use, especially with the screen on, will complete the evaporation process and the yellow "blotches" will disappear. How do I know? I was involved in pitching Z-6011 to Apple. -- end quote--

tumult 16y ago

You only hear people complaining about something on the internet when it doesn't work. So it always sounds like every product launch, ever, is a complete failure. Apple's especially, since they're high-profile. So here's an opposing anecdote for you: my iPhone 4 is completely fine. No problems at all.

Kilimanjaro 16y ago
Perhaps complains sponsored by the competition?
- stcredzero 16y ago
  Companies have attempted positive astro-turfing. The negative counterpart would seem to be easier, since people aften fear the worst, so FUD is an easier sell. This is probably going on all the time. I think it's only effective on marginal products, though. If something's going to succeed, then it makes no difference. EDIT: I am something of a marginal case, though. I have a 1st generation 8GB iPhone. I keep wishing there was some way for me to have a carrier that's not AT&T, to have pre-paid calls & data, to be on Verizon's excellent network, to not have to deal with unlocking and jailbreaking and iTunes upgrade paranoia, to be able to put in a different SIM when I travel overseas, etc... Right now, I am figuring out a way to get my hands on a Canadian iPhone. The though occurs to me: why don't I just get an Android phone? I already own two perfectly good iOS test platforms.

jonknee 16y ago

And now we know why other phone manufacturers haven't put the antenna on the outside.

sounddust 16y ago

The original iPhone had an aluminum backing, with a small black band that ran horizontally along the bottom of the back of the phone. If you covered this area while using the phone, you'd find that your EDGE speed would drop dramatically, and you would lose signal strength. Once you knew this, you had the choice between avoiding this area with your hands for maximum network performance, or holding the phone exactly how you liked and having reduced performance. The iPhone 4 (mine, at least) has the exact same issue, and it's almost in the exact same place, the only difference being the reasoning behind why it happens (in this case, it seems to be about bridging two pieces of metal with your hands), and how it can be avoided (buying a case might help with the iPhone 4, whereas it didn't with the iPhone 2G). I've owned many other phones that were sensitive to where you held them, in fact I think every phone I've ever owned without an antenna that sticks out is sensitive to this problem to some degree. I had to "train" myself not to cup my hand behind the top-backing of the Nokia I had before my iPhone. And now I'm already "trained" from holding my iPhone that I don't touch the bottom left of the phone when I talk anyway. It's not a big deal, just something to get used to (and it might turn out that a case will resolve it, which can't be said about many other phones with this issue). It is a legitimate "con" when determining whether to buy the phone, but it doesn't deserve all the ridiculous comments about how the phone is somehow flawed because of this. (And just to give some more specific details of how this affects my phone: if I put pressure on the bottom-left corner of the phone with my hand where the seam is, the signal strength drops: by 1-2 bars if I hold it normally, or all the way to 1 bar if I give it a death grip. In either case, the calls don't seem to drop).

khafra 16y ago
If you use their Apple-branded case, the little rubber band that goes around the outside edge, does that fix the problem?
- sounddust 16y ago
  I don't know because it doesn't seem to be in stock anywhere yet. (An odd mistake on Apple's part, as you certainly want all the accessories to arrive on the day that people buy their phone, otherwise they're much less likely to buy them).

nullproc 16y ago

from the folks who could not reproduce the reception issue, i would be curious to know whether your body was grounded or not. for example, were you wearing sneakers with a rubber sole. did you have your free hand in your pocket or not touching something conductive? what would happen if you tried the same activity barefoot, or while you were touching a faucet or anything else that may be grounded. i'd be curious if individuals body's are, in-fact, changing the impedance of the antenna and rendering it less effective, or if its a combinaton of factors that contribute to the issue.

ubernostrum 16y ago
I stood up on a carpet floor, barefoot, holding the phone in my left hand in the "guaranteed to lose reception" position. And didn't lose reception. Repeated on tile, didn't lose reception. Repeated touching various conductive and non-conductive objects. Didn't lose reception. As I've been saying since last night: if it's a defect, it's most likely a defect in some batches of phones and not fundamental to the design/present in all of them.

jamesseda 16y ago

RF Happens

nooneelse 16y ago

Another demo video, using a more stable, conductive test sample, a key: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvH-i7rKPJc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvH-i7rKPJc