4 ms·

This would be such a double-edged sword, essentially freezing development to where we are today (or were several years ago), rather than pursuing more compact a

by npunt 9y ago

This would be such a double-edged sword, essentially freezing development to where we are today (or were several years ago), rather than pursuing more compact and more highly integrated form factors. I'd rather we continue the march toward making the physical form factor of computers slowly disappear, which will be a much bigger win for everyone. That said, during this march we need to allow certain frequent repairs (like screens and buttons) to be easily accessible, because that is fair. Mandating upgradability means bulking things up with upgrade slots, rather than integrating things onto a lower power, more compact SoC. The other benefit of this is environmental, since you're making a smaller system with fewer components over time.

mschuster91 9y ago
So what? Upgradeable or replaceable devices prevent a LOAD of electronic waste. Common stuff that breaks on phones: screens, USB jack (hi Samsung, I managed to break EVERY USB port on my 5 Samsung phones so far), 3.5mm jack (hello pants dirt, my old friend). Worst phones are these where the USB port is soldered directly to the motherboard and not a cheap daughter board - next to zero repair shops have a solder reflow oven or the necessary skill to operate one, and it certainly doesn't help that there seem to be thousands of different versions of a micro USB jack. Common stuff that breaks on laptops: keyboard (hi coffee, hi fat cat), HDMI jack and especially power jacks. Both get hit by batteries going bonkers - I had a couple of laptops with swollen batteries, and I'm happy I still have a phone with a replaceable battery, been through two batteries now. Having to throw away a (possibly) 1500+ € device because COMMON parts, that cost CENTS, cannot be serviced, is beyond ridiculous.
- npunt 9y ago
  Perhaps you missed this part in my comment: > That said, during this march we need to allow certain frequent repairs (like screens and buttons) to be easily accessible, because that is fair. Keyboards and buttons make sense, as those are mechanical parts users interact with a lot. Ports are a different story. Is over-use of ports really going to be as much an issue in in 5-10 years? We're fast trending away from lots of ports, favoring wireless for networking, audio/video streaming, and charging. And as far as standards go, USB-C and Lightning are better designed to break at the cable without breaking the device - a much better (engineering) approach to solving this problem. Also, at some point if you break USB jacks on 5 of your Samsung phones, perhaps you should buy from a different vendor that can make something more durable. I think that goes for a lot of cheap products - they break more often because they're not built as well. Introducing legislation to reduce the frustration of cheap products today would come at the expense of forward progress and finding engineering solutions to these in the years to come.
- sliken 9y ago
  Breaking USB ports is exactly why I buy phones with wireless charging whenever possible. Mini-usb was pretty durable, never lost a cable, device, or phone. Micro-usb, despite the marketing, seems radically less durable. I've lost many chargers, cables, and phones. It's just not up to the task of daily use. I had to give up on a replaceable battery (I normally end up using a phone well after the first battery dies), but I was able to put a wireless charging pad inside the case of my Pixel Xl. So now my usb port is mostly unused and will hopefully last longer than the rest of the phone. If governments wants to decrease waste the should require replaceable batteries. Sad that just as decent quality materials are becoming quite common and CPU/ram are not limiting factors that devices could last 5-10 years... if not for the epoxied batteries.
khedoros1 9y ago
> I'd rather we continue the march toward making the physical form factor of computers slowly disappear I'm not sure what this means. Can you clarify what you were thinking?
- npunt 9y ago
  Smaller / thinner / lighter / more ubiquitous / more unbundled. Historically you sit down in front of a computer which bundles compute, display, and kb/mouse input all together. Laptops are variants on that. The last decade's growth in new form factors (phone, tablets, watch, AR/VR, voice, even cloud) are on a path to take over many of the jobs traditionally handled by a 'computer', so my point was just that we shouldn't be too wedded to our existing idea of form factors. I love my big monitors but I'd actually prefer a VR headset, something 1/10th the size or less.
  - khedoros1 9y ago
    That's an interesting perspective. I can see myself going to an AR display at some point, for some things. I can see a lot of other people moving away from what we've traditionally called "computers". For my own part, there isn't anything around yet that does what I want to do as well as they do.

by npunt 9y ago

mschuster91 9y ago

So what? Upgradeable or replaceable devices prevent a LOAD of electronic waste. Common stuff that breaks on phones: screens, USB jack (hi Samsung, I managed to break EVERY USB port on my 5 Samsung phones so far), 3.5mm jack (hello pants dirt, my old friend). Worst phones are these where the USB port is soldered directly to the motherboard and not a cheap daughter board - next to zero repair shops have a solder reflow oven or the necessary skill to operate one, and it certainly doesn't help that there seem to be thousands of different versions of a micro USB jack. Common stuff that breaks on laptops: keyboard (hi coffee, hi fat cat), HDMI jack and especially power jacks. Both get hit by batteries going bonkers - I had a couple of laptops with swollen batteries, and I'm happy I still have a phone with a replaceable battery, been through two batteries now. Having to throw away a (possibly) 1500+ € device because COMMON parts, that cost CENTS, cannot be serviced, is beyond ridiculous.

npunt 9y ago
Perhaps you missed this part in my comment: > That said, during this march we need to allow certain frequent repairs (like screens and buttons) to be easily accessible, because that is fair. Keyboards and buttons make sense, as those are mechanical parts users interact with a lot. Ports are a different story. Is over-use of ports really going to be as much an issue in in 5-10 years? We're fast trending away from lots of ports, favoring wireless for networking, audio/video streaming, and charging. And as far as standards go, USB-C and Lightning are better designed to break at the cable without breaking the device - a much better (engineering) approach to solving this problem. Also, at some point if you break USB jacks on 5 of your Samsung phones, perhaps you should buy from a different vendor that can make something more durable. I think that goes for a lot of cheap products - they break more often because they're not built as well. Introducing legislation to reduce the frustration of cheap products today would come at the expense of forward progress and finding engineering solutions to these in the years to come.
sliken 9y ago
Breaking USB ports is exactly why I buy phones with wireless charging whenever possible. Mini-usb was pretty durable, never lost a cable, device, or phone. Micro-usb, despite the marketing, seems radically less durable. I've lost many chargers, cables, and phones. It's just not up to the task of daily use. I had to give up on a replaceable battery (I normally end up using a phone well after the first battery dies), but I was able to put a wireless charging pad inside the case of my Pixel Xl. So now my usb port is mostly unused and will hopefully last longer than the rest of the phone. If governments wants to decrease waste the should require replaceable batteries. Sad that just as decent quality materials are becoming quite common and CPU/ram are not limiting factors that devices could last 5-10 years... if not for the epoxied batteries.

khedoros1 9y ago

> I'd rather we continue the march toward making the physical form factor of computers slowly disappear I'm not sure what this means. Can you clarify what you were thinking?

npunt 9y ago
Smaller / thinner / lighter / more ubiquitous / more unbundled. Historically you sit down in front of a computer which bundles compute, display, and kb/mouse input all together. Laptops are variants on that. The last decade's growth in new form factors (phone, tablets, watch, AR/VR, voice, even cloud) are on a path to take over many of the jobs traditionally handled by a 'computer', so my point was just that we shouldn't be too wedded to our existing idea of form factors. I love my big monitors but I'd actually prefer a VR headset, something 1/10th the size or less.
- khedoros1 9y ago
  That's an interesting perspective. I can see myself going to an AR display at some point, for some things. I can see a lot of other people moving away from what we've traditionally called "computers". For my own part, there isn't anything around yet that does what I want to do as well as they do.