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> If it's specifically about feedback on the whiteboard exercise That's exactly what I am asking for. I am not looking for feedback on me personally, but I wou

> If it's specifically about feedback on the whiteboard exercise That's exactly what I am asking for. I am not looking for feedback on me personally, but I would like to know why I failed the whiteboard. If I did something wrong, or inefficient, I want to know this. It's such a good learning opportunity, it's a shame for it to be wasted. And it won't even take that much time. Just send me a quick email. I always ask for feedback, so one company said something along the lines of "you didn't use OO, and you didn't name functions very well for someone with your experience" That was like a lightbulb moment for me.

SmellTheGlove 9y ago
The thing is, if you know you screwed up the whiteboard exercise, you should think about whether you need anyone's feedback. There are lots of materials and guides on working whiteboard exercises, given how pervasive they are in the industry. If you're self-aware enough to know the whiteboard exercise sunk you, you are in a good spot to identify and fix your weaknesses. This is not intended to be harsh, but comes across that way in writing: It's not a wasted learning opportunity just because someone else isn't willing to read out your evaluation. Critical thinking is as important as any other skill to a developer, so you going back through what you did and then looking at opportunities for improvement is as valuable as anyone else's feedback. I get that it's helpful, all I'm saying is it's not entirely necessary, and not a showstopper to improvement.
- vinhboy 9y ago
  I mostly agree with you and I very much do what you suggested. After all my interviews, I spend a lot of time researching the question to see what the correct answer is. For example, in one interview they asked me to make a crossword puzzle solver. After the interview, I spent the rest of the day researching algorithms to do this. That's great and all, but it doesn't give me insight into specific things I could improve for the next interview. Was I too slow? Was my solution too convoluted? Did I spent too much time thinking and not verbalizing? Is my solution wrong? I wish to have that kind of feedback because it will highlight my deficiencies. I get that they don't owe it to me to provide that feedback, and there is no incentive for them to. But it's a nice to have. As software engineers, we're all familiar with code reviews and why we do them. This is very much similar to that.
  - SmellTheGlove 9y ago
    > That's great and all, but it doesn't give me insight into specific things I could improve for the next interview. This is where I have an issue - it presumes that the interviewer knows more than you! They might, but the next interview might care about a completely different set of issues. That's why I suggest limiting the importance on feedback there. It's as good as the person giving you feedback, and you don't have much to go by on that. You also don't know if it's the whole story or the whole truth. > I get that they don't owe it to me to provide that feedback, and there is no incentive for them to. But it's a nice to have. I agree it's nice to have. I'd probably provide it if I did whiteboard interviews.
    - rhizome 9y ago
      That's why I suggest limiting the importance on feedback there. Nothing they said suggests this feedback is the most important thing to them, they were only asking for a quick email.
- brailsafe 9y ago
  I understand your point but strongly feel that the value of being self critical as a developer to be limited, specifically in this context. Without proper feedback, I'd say it's akin to editing your own novel. Sure, you might get to the point where you have no typos and you've rephrased some pointless sentiment a thousand times until it's just right, but your editor is the one who's going to tell you to throw the entire first chapter out because you're assuming prior knowledge about the story you're trying to tell.
  - SmellTheGlove 9y ago
    I'm drawing a fine line and doing a bad job of it. I think feedback is good, but I don't want to overvalue the feedback from the interviewer. That message is going to be specific to that hiring manager and organization, and some stuff might be made up because it's safer to say you did poorly on the whiteboard coding than it is to say you weren't a cultural fit. So even if you get feedback there, it may be to backfill the reason for not hiring you that they might not actually want to share. Objective eyes are good. Do the exercise with someone disinterested and see what they say. It's not that feedback isn't valuable, it's that the value from the interviewer is limited for the reasons above.
    - brailsafe 9y ago
      I tend to agree with that. Very much like soliciting design or product feedback from users. You don't want to be implementing every button or specific feature that a user says they need. Find what to gain from it if anything and hopefully find some growth from it. Thanks for the clarification.
- anth1988 9y ago
  Last interview one of my questions was "design uber" I did something that seemed sensible enough I guess. maybe. I have no freaking idea if I was even close to what he wanted. Another one was design a pipeline for real time metrics. Okay, that one at least is less ambiguous.

SmellTheGlove 9y ago

The thing is, if you know you screwed up the whiteboard exercise, you should think about whether you need anyone's feedback. There are lots of materials and guides on working whiteboard exercises, given how pervasive they are in the industry. If you're self-aware enough to know the whiteboard exercise sunk you, you are in a good spot to identify and fix your weaknesses. This is not intended to be harsh, but comes across that way in writing: It's not a wasted learning opportunity just because someone else isn't willing to read out your evaluation. Critical thinking is as important as any other skill to a developer, so you going back through what you did and then looking at opportunities for improvement is as valuable as anyone else's feedback. I get that it's helpful, all I'm saying is it's not entirely necessary, and not a showstopper to improvement.

vinhboy 9y ago
I mostly agree with you and I very much do what you suggested. After all my interviews, I spend a lot of time researching the question to see what the correct answer is. For example, in one interview they asked me to make a crossword puzzle solver. After the interview, I spent the rest of the day researching algorithms to do this. That's great and all, but it doesn't give me insight into specific things I could improve for the next interview. Was I too slow? Was my solution too convoluted? Did I spent too much time thinking and not verbalizing? Is my solution wrong? I wish to have that kind of feedback because it will highlight my deficiencies. I get that they don't owe it to me to provide that feedback, and there is no incentive for them to. But it's a nice to have. As software engineers, we're all familiar with code reviews and why we do them. This is very much similar to that.
- SmellTheGlove 9y ago
  > That's great and all, but it doesn't give me insight into specific things I could improve for the next interview. This is where I have an issue - it presumes that the interviewer knows more than you! They might, but the next interview might care about a completely different set of issues. That's why I suggest limiting the importance on feedback there. It's as good as the person giving you feedback, and you don't have much to go by on that. You also don't know if it's the whole story or the whole truth. > I get that they don't owe it to me to provide that feedback, and there is no incentive for them to. But it's a nice to have. I agree it's nice to have. I'd probably provide it if I did whiteboard interviews.
  - rhizome 9y ago
    That's why I suggest limiting the importance on feedback there. Nothing they said suggests this feedback is the most important thing to them, they were only asking for a quick email.
brailsafe 9y ago
I understand your point but strongly feel that the value of being self critical as a developer to be limited, specifically in this context. Without proper feedback, I'd say it's akin to editing your own novel. Sure, you might get to the point where you have no typos and you've rephrased some pointless sentiment a thousand times until it's just right, but your editor is the one who's going to tell you to throw the entire first chapter out because you're assuming prior knowledge about the story you're trying to tell.
- SmellTheGlove 9y ago
  I'm drawing a fine line and doing a bad job of it. I think feedback is good, but I don't want to overvalue the feedback from the interviewer. That message is going to be specific to that hiring manager and organization, and some stuff might be made up because it's safer to say you did poorly on the whiteboard coding than it is to say you weren't a cultural fit. So even if you get feedback there, it may be to backfill the reason for not hiring you that they might not actually want to share. Objective eyes are good. Do the exercise with someone disinterested and see what they say. It's not that feedback isn't valuable, it's that the value from the interviewer is limited for the reasons above.
  - brailsafe 9y ago
    I tend to agree with that. Very much like soliciting design or product feedback from users. You don't want to be implementing every button or specific feature that a user says they need. Find what to gain from it if anything and hopefully find some growth from it. Thanks for the clarification.
anth1988 9y ago
Last interview one of my questions was "design uber" I did something that seemed sensible enough I guess. maybe. I have no freaking idea if I was even close to what he wanted. Another one was design a pipeline for real time metrics. Okay, that one at least is less ambiguous.