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Yes, apparently the AHA is still committed to science.

by pdog 9y ago

sremani 9y ago
Science or as N.N.Taleb says Scientism? There is an entire state in India where Coconut Oil is a main ingredient (Kerala) for centuries.
- KekDemaga 9y ago
  >There is an entire state in India where Coconut Oil is a main ingredient (Kerala) for centuries. Don't they also defecate openly there? Doesn't seem like the best area to mimic public health wise.
  - sunshinerag 9y ago
    They don't. That is a different state.
  - pm90 9y ago
    Please refrain from Ad hominems like this. Depending on where you are from, I can probably find a similarly unpleasant public health characteristic, but does it really get anywhere in the argument? Besides, they actually don't. Its one of the most progressive states in India with 100% literacy etc.
    - KekDemaga 9y ago
      I'm just pointing out that "well India has done it for a long time so it must be good" is a logical fallacy as not all practices engaged in there will positively effect health. No offense intended.
      - pm90 9y ago
        OK, I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt. Your assertion is meaningless because "well India has done it for a long time so it must be good" is not being said for the social practice of open defecation but for the specific effect of coconut oil on the health and longevity of a large number of human beings.
        KekDemaga 9y ago
        >the specific effect of coconut oil on the health and longevity of a large number of human beings. US life expectancy is a full decade ahead of India, it seems the article may be accurate by those numbers. Do you have any evidence to counter it?
- LordKano 9y ago
  Indians also have surprisingly high rates of cardiovascular disease for a people with such low levels of obesity.
  - sremani 9y ago
    Kerala is sub-set of India and they have one the better socio-economic indices in India, from that my guess is better Health indices relatively speaking. The biggest problem in the state for Health is alcoholism (to my knowledge). When it comes to food, I follow Micheal Pollen's rule, food that your grandma recognize a.k.a traditional food. Coconut Oil has been used in traditional foods in many parts of the world that is sufficient evidence for me.
    - epmaybe 9y ago
      People in India have eaten Betel nuts/leaves for generations, yet that causes oral cancer. Doesn't seem like sufficient enough evidence to me that traditional foods = healthy.
    - Capt-RogerOver 9y ago
      With all do respect for your personal health choices, that's not science nor "evidence". Just because some culture does something, doesn't mean it's the optimal way of things, especially nutrition. It's just something you have chosen to base your life on.
  - pm90 9y ago
    That is actually not very surprising. If you consider all the people in India, poverty and malnoursihment is still incredibly high. But there is much prosperity in the cities ... but healthy habits (like exercises, gym) have only recently started taking root. So obesity is more common amongst well to do Indians which in turn leads to cardiovascular diseases.
- Capt-RogerOver 9y ago
  There are also tribes that actively drink alcohol or even consume natural opiates all the time. What's your point?
  - sremani 9y ago
    Population of Kerala : 34.8 million and many more live in Persian Gulf and other parts of India. This is a huge population, about size of Venezuela. When you talk about a State in India it pretty much is a large sample size.
    - astrodust 9y ago
      When you're talking about India, 34 million people is a rounding error. It's also a country with unusually high population diversity which means that genetically speaking you could be talking about a group of people that are naturally immune to the effects of whatever they're consuming. You'd have to take a broader sample to find out.
      - pm90 9y ago
        > When you're talking about India, 34 million people is a rounding error. I don't understand your point. Sure its a rounding error when compared to the rest of India. But for the purposes of observing the effects of a certain foodstuff, that is certainly a large enough sample size of humans. > It's also a country with unusually high population diversity which means that genetically speaking you could be talking about a group of people that are naturally immune to the effects of whatever they're consuming. You'd have to take a broader sample to find out. This is highly unlikely. If there was such a genetic trait, I think it would be very apparent (e.g. we know certain populations in Africa are prone to sickle cell disease). Besides, its not just Kerala: most coastal regions in India have many many (delicious) coconut based cuisine which have been regularly consumed for generations.
        astrodust 9y ago
        What I mean is you may need to have a broader group in order to draw actual conclusions. Medical research has been heavily damaged by not including enough diversity in the sample groups. One region of India is not necessarily proof of anything other than that particular group of people does not suffer any ill-effects. For example, millions of Europeans have been consuming dairy products for generations and suffer no ill-effects but this is only because they have a mutation that allows them to process lactose in adulthood.

Yes, apparently the AHA is still committed to science.

by pdog 9y ago

Yes, apparently the AHA is still committed to science.

Science or as N.N.Taleb says Scientism? There is an entire state in India where Coconut Oil is a main ingredient (Kerala) for centuries.

KekDemaga 9y ago
>There is an entire state in India where Coconut Oil is a main ingredient (Kerala) for centuries. Don't they also defecate openly there? Doesn't seem like the best area to mimic public health wise.
- sunshinerag 9y ago
  They don't. That is a different state.
- pm90 9y ago
  Please refrain from Ad hominems like this. Depending on where you are from, I can probably find a similarly unpleasant public health characteristic, but does it really get anywhere in the argument? Besides, they actually don't. Its one of the most progressive states in India with 100% literacy etc.
  - KekDemaga 9y ago
    I'm just pointing out that "well India has done it for a long time so it must be good" is a logical fallacy as not all practices engaged in there will positively effect health. No offense intended.
    - pm90 9y ago
      OK, I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt. Your assertion is meaningless because "well India has done it for a long time so it must be good" is not being said for the social practice of open defecation but for the specific effect of coconut oil on the health and longevity of a large number of human beings.
      - KekDemaga 9y ago
        >the specific effect of coconut oil on the health and longevity of a large number of human beings. US life expectancy is a full decade ahead of India, it seems the article may be accurate by those numbers. Do you have any evidence to counter it?
LordKano 9y ago
Indians also have surprisingly high rates of cardiovascular disease for a people with such low levels of obesity.
- sremani 9y ago
  Kerala is sub-set of India and they have one the better socio-economic indices in India, from that my guess is better Health indices relatively speaking. The biggest problem in the state for Health is alcoholism (to my knowledge). When it comes to food, I follow Micheal Pollen's rule, food that your grandma recognize a.k.a traditional food. Coconut Oil has been used in traditional foods in many parts of the world that is sufficient evidence for me.
  - epmaybe 9y ago
    People in India have eaten Betel nuts/leaves for generations, yet that causes oral cancer. Doesn't seem like sufficient enough evidence to me that traditional foods = healthy.
  - Capt-RogerOver 9y ago
    With all do respect for your personal health choices, that's not science nor "evidence". Just because some culture does something, doesn't mean it's the optimal way of things, especially nutrition. It's just something you have chosen to base your life on.
- pm90 9y ago
  That is actually not very surprising. If you consider all the people in India, poverty and malnoursihment is still incredibly high. But there is much prosperity in the cities ... but healthy habits (like exercises, gym) have only recently started taking root. So obesity is more common amongst well to do Indians which in turn leads to cardiovascular diseases.
Capt-RogerOver 9y ago
There are also tribes that actively drink alcohol or even consume natural opiates all the time. What's your point?
- sremani 9y ago
  Population of Kerala : 34.8 million and many more live in Persian Gulf and other parts of India. This is a huge population, about size of Venezuela. When you talk about a State in India it pretty much is a large sample size.
  - astrodust 9y ago
    When you're talking about India, 34 million people is a rounding error. It's also a country with unusually high population diversity which means that genetically speaking you could be talking about a group of people that are naturally immune to the effects of whatever they're consuming. You'd have to take a broader sample to find out.
    - pm90 9y ago
      > When you're talking about India, 34 million people is a rounding error. I don't understand your point. Sure its a rounding error when compared to the rest of India. But for the purposes of observing the effects of a certain foodstuff, that is certainly a large enough sample size of humans. > It's also a country with unusually high population diversity which means that genetically speaking you could be talking about a group of people that are naturally immune to the effects of whatever they're consuming. You'd have to take a broader sample to find out. This is highly unlikely. If there was such a genetic trait, I think it would be very apparent (e.g. we know certain populations in Africa are prone to sickle cell disease). Besides, its not just Kerala: most coastal regions in India have many many (delicious) coconut based cuisine which have been regularly consumed for generations.
      - astrodust 9y ago
        What I mean is you may need to have a broader group in order to draw actual conclusions. Medical research has been heavily damaged by not including enough diversity in the sample groups. One region of India is not necessarily proof of anything other than that particular group of people does not suffer any ill-effects. For example, millions of Europeans have been consuming dairy products for generations and suffer no ill-effects but this is only because they have a mutation that allows them to process lactose in adulthood.