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The plans: (pdf) http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/space.2017.29009.emu http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/space.2017.2900... In the "Why
by LeifCarrotson 9y ago
The plans: (pdf)
http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/space.2017.29009.emu http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/space.2017.2900...
In the "Why Mars?" section, Musk writes:
> It is a little cold, but we can warm it up.
In the very, very, long term we might be able to terraform Mars, but in the next few hundred years I think it would be more accurate to say that heating is a lot easier to manage than cooling.
We can survive in Martian temperatures that occur on Earth with nothing more than well-insulated clothing. But as Phoenix, AZ is discovering this week, even a few degrees over body temperature is really bad.
In the section on the importance of reusability, he writes:
> However, with frequent flights, you can take an aircraft that costs $90 million and buy a ticket on Southwest right now from Los Angeles to Vegas for $43, including taxes.
That's because the casinos subsidize it. Flights to and from Vegas from anywhere are cheaper than others, even more frequent or shorter flights.
- 6d6b73 9y ago>We can survive in Martian temperatures that occur on Earth with nothing more than well-insulated clothing. But we need pressurized suits to survive on Mars. Mars is really not a smart place to colonize. Clouds of Venus are much nicer.
- rory096 9y agoAn atmosphere full of sulfuric acid and no ground (with all the resources you can extract from it) is far worse than a low-pressure environment.
- 6d6b73 9y agoIt's full of carbon dioxide, and amount of sulfuric acid is negligible, plus that acid can be used to extract water. On Mars you have sand storms, which are more dangerous to people and equipment. Resources can be brought from asteroids. Mars is not only low pressure,but also low gravity, high radiation environment. Venus colony could be powered by solar power, as it's much closer to Sun, on Mars it would be much harder to generate power.
- baq 9y agoIt's going to be a tad more difficult to be a launch pad on Venus to get back home, though.
- 6d6b73 9y agoCare to explain why? You are 50 km above the surface all the time, so half the trip (when compared to Earth) is already behind you.
- ceejayoz 9y agoSure, but you're taking off in a rocket from a balloon.
- maxerickson 9y agoWhat does that matter? It's not like rockets launched from the surface spend a long time pushing on the planet.
- ceejayoz 9y agoYou wouldn't be even the littlest bit dubious of taking off from an inflatable balloon with a big fiery rocket where the launch abort is liable to drop you into lead-melting temperatures and nine atmospheres of pressure?
- maxerickson 9y agoProbably not any more uncomfortable than I'd be with the prospect of aborting a surface launch. There's probably some trick to do with the crew portion of the rocket too, where it could be buoyant before it got down to 9 atmospheres.
- carleverett 9y agoSorry to burst your bubble, but most of Venus's water was lost to space a long time ago :(
- LeifCarrotson 9y agoIt's much easier to maintain an internal pressure against an external vacuum than it is to maintain an internal low pressure against an external high pressure. Mechanically, the former is much stronger - tension is easier to manage than compression, so catastrophic failures are less likely. Also, if you suffer a minor failure, it's fairly easy to maintain pressure just by releasing a little more air into the system. On Venus, a small puncture will hiss with sulfuric acid. Forced to choose between fighting cold and low pressure or fighting heat, high pressure, and fighting gravity that wants you to plummet 50 km through the acid clouds....I'd pick the Martian colony, thank you very much!
- tangent128 9y agoYou don't have to maintain a pressure differential on Venus- oxygen is a lifting gas in the comfortable sections of Venus's atmosphere. Hot air balloons are a well-understood technology.
- sampo 9y agoThey wrote "clouds of Venus". Meaning floating cities high in the atmosphere of Venus, at a level where the air density is about one Earth atmosphere.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- grondilu 9y agoI think pressure is much more of a problem than temperature. Thermal insolation does not fail catastrophically. Pressure regulation kind of does.
- bradbatt 9y agoThat's because the casinos subsidize it. Vegas casinos subsidize public air travel? I didn't realize they did this...do you have a source for this?
- sqeaky 9y agoDoesn't matter if Vegas does it or not the Casino I set up on Mars will!
- LeifCarrotson 9y agoYou are correct, this is a remarkable claim...but it seems to be the simplest explanation. Even in the face of claims to the contrary: https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/1997/nov/17/no-airline-subsidies-to-come-to-lv/ https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/1997/nov/17/no-airline-subsid... the difference between air fares to Vegas and comparable cities and the difference in hotel rates clearly shows that there is something going on. It may not be a true subsidy; perhaps the airlines found that the high volume of very price-sensitive travelers to Vegas justified thinner margins than to other cities. But the point stands that it's disingenuous to use a $43 flight to Vegas as a price point for the cost of air travel.