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I know that there are some stories about bad experiences in the fulfillment centers, but keep in mind that those positions are temporary seasonal work by unskil

by nebula 9y ago

I know that there are some stories about bad experiences in the fulfillment centers, but keep in mind that those positions are temporary seasonal work by unskilled labor. The tone of your writing suggests that you are OK with treating these people badly. If a company treats some set of its workers badly, what stops them from treating other employees the same way? In this case, they may treat SW engineers well because there is a lot of demand for engineers, and they have to be treated well to retain good folks. That is not comparable to the good culture that OP claims WF has.

deleted 9y ago
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illumin8 9y ago
Have you ever worked a minimum wage food service or warehouse job before? I have, and believe me, it's hell. I spent my high school years working as a cook at KFC. Hot summer days spent making $3.35 an hour standing over pressure cookers full of 400 degree hot oil and lifting 50 pound baskets of deep fried chicken out of them. You get a 15 minute paid break every 4 hours, and a mandatory 30 minute unpaid break for lunch. I'm not saying its ok to be inhumane or break laws and treat your workers like cattle. I'm just saying that if you've never worked at a minimum wage unskilled job before, you probably don't realize how much it can be hell, just due to the nature of the work. The same thing can be said for lots of labor like farming, construction work, mining, etc.
- computerex 9y ago
  What the hell is your point? That amazon treats unskilled labor in fulfillment centers less badly than KFC? Amazon has earned itself a reputation for being frugal/fostering a poor work life balance. You countered by saying that those stories only apply to seasonal "unskilled labor" in fulfillment centers. I am of the opinion that amazon should treat all of their employees well. OP is concerned about the impact amazon's culture will have on WF, which is apparently known for treating its employees really well (these employees would fall under the "seasonal unskilled labor" under your definition).
  - illumin8 9y ago
    I'm not going to argue with you. I'm just pointing out that many of us have relatively easy white-collar jobs that pale in comparison to the hard, manual labor that our grandparents did. Expecting a warehouse job to coddle you is ridiculous. You're working in a warehouse - you know you're going to be standing on your feet, walking about 10 miles a day, your entire shift (outside of breaks). If you can't handle that, don't take the job. Nobody is forcing you to.
    - eellpp 9y ago
      > Nobody is forcing you to. The economic/social situation of people force them into these jobs. Just ignoring this and accepting it as reality is ridiculous. This can be said of any of such social behaviours. In some cultures, the violence on women is countered by the logic that they were wearing certain kind of dress and nobody is forcing them to do this etc .. There are certain values in society that we should try to fight for. They may seem idealistic in current perspective, but nevertheless we should strive for them to make progress inch by inch. Brushing them off under the pretext of "nobody forced them" is not right.
      - illumin8 9y ago
        Bullshit. You either take a job, or you don't. Nobody is holding a gun to your head. Nobody forced you to live where you do. Nobody forced you to choose a place to live that doesn't have opportunities. I've moved to half a dozen different states to get a better job, because I realized, like any reasonably decent person, that you can't expect others to improve your own situation. You need to take charge of your own life, and improve it, if you want to.
        csallen 9y ago
        I get your point, but the fact that one way to improve working conditions is to take matters into your own hands doesn't mean that we should rule out the other course of action: pressuring companies to change. I remember reading a story about a 19th century company that literally put chains on the doors to prevent workers from leaving the building. When a fire broke out, dozens died. Today we don't allow that type of behavior, and for good reason. The reason that you can move elsewhere to get a better job is because society has worked to ensure the prevalence of said good jobs, and I hope it continues to do so.

by nebula 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

illumin8 9y ago

Have you ever worked a minimum wage food service or warehouse job before? I have, and believe me, it's hell. I spent my high school years working as a cook at KFC. Hot summer days spent making $3.35 an hour standing over pressure cookers full of 400 degree hot oil and lifting 50 pound baskets of deep fried chicken out of them. You get a 15 minute paid break every 4 hours, and a mandatory 30 minute unpaid break for lunch. I'm not saying its ok to be inhumane or break laws and treat your workers like cattle. I'm just saying that if you've never worked at a minimum wage unskilled job before, you probably don't realize how much it can be hell, just due to the nature of the work. The same thing can be said for lots of labor like farming, construction work, mining, etc.

computerex 9y ago
What the hell is your point? That amazon treats unskilled labor in fulfillment centers less badly than KFC? Amazon has earned itself a reputation for being frugal/fostering a poor work life balance. You countered by saying that those stories only apply to seasonal "unskilled labor" in fulfillment centers. I am of the opinion that amazon should treat all of their employees well. OP is concerned about the impact amazon's culture will have on WF, which is apparently known for treating its employees really well (these employees would fall under the "seasonal unskilled labor" under your definition).
- illumin8 9y ago
  I'm not going to argue with you. I'm just pointing out that many of us have relatively easy white-collar jobs that pale in comparison to the hard, manual labor that our grandparents did. Expecting a warehouse job to coddle you is ridiculous. You're working in a warehouse - you know you're going to be standing on your feet, walking about 10 miles a day, your entire shift (outside of breaks). If you can't handle that, don't take the job. Nobody is forcing you to.
  - eellpp 9y ago
    > Nobody is forcing you to. The economic/social situation of people force them into these jobs. Just ignoring this and accepting it as reality is ridiculous. This can be said of any of such social behaviours. In some cultures, the violence on women is countered by the logic that they were wearing certain kind of dress and nobody is forcing them to do this etc .. There are certain values in society that we should try to fight for. They may seem idealistic in current perspective, but nevertheless we should strive for them to make progress inch by inch. Brushing them off under the pretext of "nobody forced them" is not right.
    - illumin8 9y ago
      Bullshit. You either take a job, or you don't. Nobody is holding a gun to your head. Nobody forced you to live where you do. Nobody forced you to choose a place to live that doesn't have opportunities. I've moved to half a dozen different states to get a better job, because I realized, like any reasonably decent person, that you can't expect others to improve your own situation. You need to take charge of your own life, and improve it, if you want to.
      - csallen 9y ago
        I get your point, but the fact that one way to improve working conditions is to take matters into your own hands doesn't mean that we should rule out the other course of action: pressuring companies to change. I remember reading a story about a 19th century company that literally put chains on the doors to prevent workers from leaving the building. When a fire broke out, dozens died. Today we don't allow that type of behavior, and for good reason. The reason that you can move elsewhere to get a better job is because society has worked to ensure the prevalence of said good jobs, and I hope it continues to do so.