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For me (not from or in the US), I see this as US Congress legitimising cryptocurrencies. If not fully, at least partially. Keeping legislation up to date with

For me (not from or in the US), I see this as US Congress legitimising cryptocurrencies. If not fully, at least partially. Keeping legislation up to date with the latest methods of money laundering is their job. Digital currencies (in all of their forms) are the latest methods used. Therefore, including them specifically in legislation will help law enforcement combat money laundering. This will mean exchanges will need to cooperate with US agencies, if they operate any business in the US, and provide records of holders and balances, etc. This reduces risk for the businesses and individuals. At the moment, it's like the wild west (e.g. bankruptcies at Mt Gox and Cryptsy, large scale wallet thefts, WannaCry, etc.). Enabling US law enforcement to subpoena records from these exchanges will mean the 'dark money' moves out, and legitimacy takes it's place. I see this as a good thing. For those of us NOT laundering money through cryptocurrencies, this adds to the argument that they are legitimate replacements for the existing currencies of the world to perform transactions. That's how I see it from a completely external perspective.

aaron-lebo 9y ago
You're probably right, but it could just as easily be signs that authorities finally are starting to understand them and it's step one in a crackdown. I'll admit, that's partially due to a bias due to Bitcoin enthusiasts turning every event into a positive. Mt. Gox disaster? Oh well it's just the community policing itself. It's the sign of a healthy economy. To the moon! Sounds like an exaggeration, but checkout r/bitcoin and you'll know that sentiment. The really fun part about this is without tumblers or with regulated tumblers, you've now got a currency where every single transaction is globally available and traceable. Hits money launderers but hope you like the government tracking you. Cash transactions don't seem so bad after all.
- cl0rkster 9y ago
  That is almost true. However, transferring value between cryptos is trivial and at least Monero and zcash allow you to tumble your transactions and essentially completely disguise the inputs and outputs from anyone trying to search the public ledger.
  - wmf 9y ago
    But do the latest regulations essentially ban Monero and ZCash?
    - Phlarp 9y ago
      Only to the extent to which any government can ban math.
      - RcouF1uZ4gsC 9y ago
        But, they can keep the math as only math and prevent it from being used for real world goods and services.
      - vidarh 9y ago
        The difference here being that the next step can easily be to impose requirements on merchants to do checks, and require them to refuse to honour transactions where payments comes from known tumblers etc. In the UK, if you apply for a mortgage now, for example, your solicitor and mortgage provider will ask questions about where your deposit is coming from, and require documentation if it looks like it's not from regular savings or the like. Today that is manual and paper based, and so only viable for large purchases like a house, and additional documentation is only requested if there are indications of fairly large payments in your last 6 months of bank statements. My ex was bitten by this when buying a house recently, as she received part of her dads estate via bank transfer from abroad, and had to chase down documentation from the executor to demonstrate that it was a legitimate source. With crypto coins they could require execution of automated analysis of far more transactions going far further back in time. Won't stop it from being used for crime, and won't prevent people from finding ways of making transactions anonymous, but the point is they don't need to "ban math" because that maths intersects with physical actions taken by humans on a regular basis.
- Qub3d 9y ago
  See also: "This is good for bitcoin!"
wmf 9y ago
Cryptocurrency is now so legitimate that it's pointless. It's not permissionless, not anonymous, not immediate or irrevocable, etc.
- wyager 9y ago
  Thankfully, the fundamentals of the technology prevent it from being entirely subverted. You can still choose to ignore these restrictions, just like with cash.
  - petre 9y ago
    Yet it's way easier to hide 10 BTC than is to hide 10k USD. You can encrypt it and embed it in photos of cats for instance. To hide that amount of cash from airport security is rather difficult.
    - rebuilder 9y ago
      Or just memorize a passphrase. Money in your brain!
      - gruez 9y ago
        And get it stolen (because you thought "correct battery horse staple" was a secure password) or lost (because you never used the password for years)
        rebuilder 9y ago
        You'd want a safe backup, of course.
  - mirimir 9y ago
    Yes. But it's transmission to/from meatspace that's already problematic. And this will make it harder in the US. There are services that sell cryptocurrencies anonymously, accepting cash, gold or silver by mail. Cashing out anonymously is much harder. Receiving cash by mail could become the only viable option. And there's considerable risk of discovery. Strict compartmentalization of online cryptocurrencies and meatspace is arguably the safest option.

aaron-lebo 9y ago

You're probably right, but it could just as easily be signs that authorities finally are starting to understand them and it's step one in a crackdown. I'll admit, that's partially due to a bias due to Bitcoin enthusiasts turning every event into a positive. Mt. Gox disaster? Oh well it's just the community policing itself. It's the sign of a healthy economy. To the moon! Sounds like an exaggeration, but checkout r/bitcoin and you'll know that sentiment. The really fun part about this is without tumblers or with regulated tumblers, you've now got a currency where every single transaction is globally available and traceable. Hits money launderers but hope you like the government tracking you. Cash transactions don't seem so bad after all.

cl0rkster 9y ago
That is almost true. However, transferring value between cryptos is trivial and at least Monero and zcash allow you to tumble your transactions and essentially completely disguise the inputs and outputs from anyone trying to search the public ledger.
- wmf 9y ago
  But do the latest regulations essentially ban Monero and ZCash?
  - Phlarp 9y ago
    Only to the extent to which any government can ban math.
    - RcouF1uZ4gsC 9y ago
      But, they can keep the math as only math and prevent it from being used for real world goods and services.
    - vidarh 9y ago
      The difference here being that the next step can easily be to impose requirements on merchants to do checks, and require them to refuse to honour transactions where payments comes from known tumblers etc. In the UK, if you apply for a mortgage now, for example, your solicitor and mortgage provider will ask questions about where your deposit is coming from, and require documentation if it looks like it's not from regular savings or the like. Today that is manual and paper based, and so only viable for large purchases like a house, and additional documentation is only requested if there are indications of fairly large payments in your last 6 months of bank statements. My ex was bitten by this when buying a house recently, as she received part of her dads estate via bank transfer from abroad, and had to chase down documentation from the executor to demonstrate that it was a legitimate source. With crypto coins they could require execution of automated analysis of far more transactions going far further back in time. Won't stop it from being used for crime, and won't prevent people from finding ways of making transactions anonymous, but the point is they don't need to "ban math" because that maths intersects with physical actions taken by humans on a regular basis.
Qub3d 9y ago
See also: "This is good for bitcoin!"

wmf 9y ago

Cryptocurrency is now so legitimate that it's pointless. It's not permissionless, not anonymous, not immediate or irrevocable, etc.

wyager 9y ago
Thankfully, the fundamentals of the technology prevent it from being entirely subverted. You can still choose to ignore these restrictions, just like with cash.
- petre 9y ago
  Yet it's way easier to hide 10 BTC than is to hide 10k USD. You can encrypt it and embed it in photos of cats for instance. To hide that amount of cash from airport security is rather difficult.
  - rebuilder 9y ago
    Or just memorize a passphrase. Money in your brain!
    - gruez 9y ago
      And get it stolen (because you thought "correct battery horse staple" was a secure password) or lost (because you never used the password for years)
      - rebuilder 9y ago
        You'd want a safe backup, of course.
- mirimir 9y ago
  Yes. But it's transmission to/from meatspace that's already problematic. And this will make it harder in the US. There are services that sell cryptocurrencies anonymously, accepting cash, gold or silver by mail. Cashing out anonymously is much harder. Receiving cash by mail could become the only viable option. And there's considerable risk of discovery. Strict compartmentalization of online cryptocurrencies and meatspace is arguably the safest option.