4 ms·

Maybe you're special. And contracts can even be negotiated with a group to recognize individual performance! But the data is pretty clear that when workers barg

Maybe you're special. And contracts can even be negotiated with a group to recognize individual performance! But the data is pretty clear that when workers bargain collectively, they can negotiate higher pay and better benefits.

tomjakubowski 9y ago
Indeed, collective bargaining doesn't mean that an individual has no ability to negotiate their own contract with their employer, there are just certain restrictions. See, for example, the collective bargaining done on behalf of professional athletes by unions, like the NBPA or MLBPA.
- DrScump 9y ago
  All such contracts are subordinate to the CBA and can't have conflicting elements. For example, a ballplayer can't waive a CBA_specified contrast constraint (e.g. many performance incentives are disallowed, can't work for less than the CBA-mandated minimum, etc.).
  - elicash 9y ago
    You're both saying the same thing. What workers negotiate and agree to for their CBA is a contract and they can choose to not include certain things so that individuals can create a second contract individually.
    - DrScump 9y ago
      they can choose to not include certain things No, they can't. That was my point.
scoofy 9y ago
I think the real issue is what "benefits" means. If benefits means healthcare, then i'm all for it. If benefits means it's nearly impossible to fire someone, or that seniority trumps performance, then it seems more like it will negatively impact many workers than it is supposed to benefit.
- elicash 9y ago
  If that's true, that should make it easy for you to work with your coworkers to allow more lax rules about firing when negotiating and in return -- since management will surely be happy too -- you can probably get management to negotiate something that your coworkers would prefer!
- Avshalom 9y ago
  >seniority trumps performance At least people can actually measure seniority.
rollingpebbles 9y ago
Exactly. Unions built the middle class. Watch Robert Reich's "Inequality for All" which demonstrates how unions benefit workers. In the old days, unions were formed because robber-barons cheated workers out of pay, much like today. It was a hard-won struggle, with many murders.

tomjakubowski 9y ago

Indeed, collective bargaining doesn't mean that an individual has no ability to negotiate their own contract with their employer, there are just certain restrictions. See, for example, the collective bargaining done on behalf of professional athletes by unions, like the NBPA or MLBPA.

DrScump 9y ago
All such contracts are subordinate to the CBA and can't have conflicting elements. For example, a ballplayer can't waive a CBA_specified contrast constraint (e.g. many performance incentives are disallowed, can't work for less than the CBA-mandated minimum, etc.).
- elicash 9y ago
  You're both saying the same thing. What workers negotiate and agree to for their CBA is a contract and they can choose to not include certain things so that individuals can create a second contract individually.
  - DrScump 9y ago
    they can choose to not include certain things No, they can't. That was my point.

scoofy 9y ago

I think the real issue is what "benefits" means. If benefits means healthcare, then i'm all for it. If benefits means it's nearly impossible to fire someone, or that seniority trumps performance, then it seems more like it will negatively impact many workers than it is supposed to benefit.

elicash 9y ago
If that's true, that should make it easy for you to work with your coworkers to allow more lax rules about firing when negotiating and in return -- since management will surely be happy too -- you can probably get management to negotiate something that your coworkers would prefer!
Avshalom 9y ago
>seniority trumps performance At least people can actually measure seniority.

rollingpebbles 9y ago

Exactly. Unions built the middle class. Watch Robert Reich's "Inequality for All" which demonstrates how unions benefit workers. In the old days, unions were formed because robber-barons cheated workers out of pay, much like today. It was a hard-won struggle, with many murders.