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Oh Hacker News, you beautiful people, let me tell you a quick story, because I am in the mood to tell a story in this current country I live in where we are goi

Oh Hacker News, you beautiful people, let me tell you a quick story, because I am in the mood to tell a story in this current country I live in where we are going to make things Great Again by restoring industrial jobs, as though industrial jobs were ipso facto wonderful, high-paying things. As opposed to dangerous, low-paying shit work that killed the people who showed up 6+ days a week until they all looked at each other and decided not to accept the terms that had been decreed to them. We didn't used to have great jobs for high school-educated folks, we used to have unions. Because lots of people earning 0.05x joining together are the only way to make things fair when woking for a person earning X. Or 10x. But that only applies to the slob packing a box to send you a fidget spinner thing. Not to you brilliant coders working in Silicon Valley, obvs. Except here's a thing: I worked for at a 8-to-5 for years before going out on my own for the last decade. And now I can't seem to go back, because all the full time gigs I find quote me $US125-150k. And I make about twice that as a contractor. Nothing fancy, I haven't found some wonderful niche, I just ask for my rate and get it and work. And even after accounting for paying both sides of Social Security taxes, I make 2x the top end of whatever StackOverflow survey you want to look at. I'm not amazing, I'm just a guy who got a decent education that was paid for in large part by my mom's salary as a teacher. Which was a result of her efforts in a union that had to go out on strike some times. Unions aren't perfect. No organization of humans ever will be. But regurgitating "facts" about why unions failed that have been drilled into you by popular media isn't a way to overcome that. It's a way to get screwed. Good luck.

s_m_t 9y ago
Isn't being a contractor like the complete opposite of being in a union?
- ghthor 9y ago
  Their statement is that as a contractor they are my empowered to negotiate better rates then as a full time employee. I believe this is a attempt to say that if we, software engineers, utilized a union we'd be able to negotiate better pay for ourselves.
  - tclancy 9y ago
    Yeah, that. From now on I am going to wait and let you give better responses than my own. Please don't go on strike.
- tclancy 9y ago
  In a way, sure. But it's also the opposite of accepting the lowest-common-denominator offer/ saying "There's got to be a better deal than this". The problem is coding isn't a closed shop and can't be as currently structured.
ghthor 9y ago
I wonder if this issue with unions now is related to the same issue we're having in government politics, the voting system. If unions are using a first past the post system to vote in reps then the inevitable result is a concentration of power in a few parasitic individuals that and then exploit the employer and the union members for their own gain.
- frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
  What makes you think their is an "issue with unions now" any more than their is an "issue" with corporations? When Wells Fargo steals from it's customers we discuss the problems with Wells Fargo and what's wrong with the culture at Wells Fargo and is this the fault of the CEO at Wells Fargo. When the union workers at Boeing strike we say "see, unions are bad."
skinnymuch 9y ago
> And even after accounting for paying both sides of Social Security taxes Clearly you should probably continue doing what you're doing since you make way more. But there's more benefits to a higher end job than just not paying half the social security tax, right? Ballparking but the extra SS tax is like $8K a year or so right? If you need to provide health insurance for more than yourself and want the sort of health insurance you'd get at the top end of SO jobs, the cost should dwarf the extra SS tax you pay. If it's just for yourself then the cost would probably still equal out to about as much as the extra SS tax, no? I know you might have a spouse that gets you covered under insurance. But that isn't the case for everyone. And there's other benefits like 401k matching. I'm not sure exactly what else there can be. I've only worked for myself too. And I risk it and just get the cheapest catastrophe health insurance since I'm still young-ish. I probably write off a lot more than someone working at a top SO job though so there is that benefit. Hm maybe my post doesn't have too much of a point then, hah.
home_boi 9y ago
Food for thought, if software engineers unionized, you would be out of a job as a contractor because any employer that uses your service would get inflatable ratted. Then you would be forced to join a union and take the same low pay as every other engineer. And your income would be based on seniority instead of skill, so there is very little chance that you would make even half of your contracting rate.

s_m_t 9y ago

Isn't being a contractor like the complete opposite of being in a union?

ghthor 9y ago
Their statement is that as a contractor they are my empowered to negotiate better rates then as a full time employee. I believe this is a attempt to say that if we, software engineers, utilized a union we'd be able to negotiate better pay for ourselves.
- tclancy 9y ago
  Yeah, that. From now on I am going to wait and let you give better responses than my own. Please don't go on strike.
tclancy 9y ago
In a way, sure. But it's also the opposite of accepting the lowest-common-denominator offer/ saying "There's got to be a better deal than this". The problem is coding isn't a closed shop and can't be as currently structured.

ghthor 9y ago

I wonder if this issue with unions now is related to the same issue we're having in government politics, the voting system. If unions are using a first past the post system to vote in reps then the inevitable result is a concentration of power in a few parasitic individuals that and then exploit the employer and the union members for their own gain.

frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
What makes you think their is an "issue with unions now" any more than their is an "issue" with corporations? When Wells Fargo steals from it's customers we discuss the problems with Wells Fargo and what's wrong with the culture at Wells Fargo and is this the fault of the CEO at Wells Fargo. When the union workers at Boeing strike we say "see, unions are bad."

skinnymuch 9y ago

> And even after accounting for paying both sides of Social Security taxes Clearly you should probably continue doing what you're doing since you make way more. But there's more benefits to a higher end job than just not paying half the social security tax, right? Ballparking but the extra SS tax is like $8K a year or so right? If you need to provide health insurance for more than yourself and want the sort of health insurance you'd get at the top end of SO jobs, the cost should dwarf the extra SS tax you pay. If it's just for yourself then the cost would probably still equal out to about as much as the extra SS tax, no? I know you might have a spouse that gets you covered under insurance. But that isn't the case for everyone. And there's other benefits like 401k matching. I'm not sure exactly what else there can be. I've only worked for myself too. And I risk it and just get the cheapest catastrophe health insurance since I'm still young-ish. I probably write off a lot more than someone working at a top SO job though so there is that benefit. Hm maybe my post doesn't have too much of a point then, hah.

home_boi 9y ago

Food for thought, if software engineers unionized, you would be out of a job as a contractor because any employer that uses your service would get inflatable ratted. Then you would be forced to join a union and take the same low pay as every other engineer. And your income would be based on seniority instead of skill, so there is very little chance that you would make even half of your contracting rate.