5 ms·

Overheard on Twitter: What if... we had this one giant GoFundMe for all medical bills that everyone paid into?

hippich 9y ago
it would be treated exactly like people want universal healthcare - everyone just accepted they deserve one, without being grateful for it. Unlike such funds GoFundMe recipients know exactly who gave them life. This is very powerful distinction.
- skywhopper 9y ago
  What about the people who don't have a network of friends and acquaintances with enough extra money to help pay their bills? What about chronic problems that require thousands or more dollars each year to address and never end? Should those people just keep begging? Eventually that will destroy their relationships if they kept trying it year after year. But I'm confused why you think gratefulness and knowing how "gave them life" is key. If my work-provided insurance plan pays for medicine I need to survive, who should I be supplicating myself to to satisfy your moral demands for appropriate gratefulness? Do I have less value as a human being in your eyes because I accepted payment from a faceless remote corporation instead of by begging my social network to give me the money?
  - hippich 9y ago
    Not sure why you switched it to personal attack here. I personally have no demands about you using your insurance plan you paid for. I just explain how people who get something for free from something very abstract they could care less about, do not value what they get. Health care is not naturally given. Someone have to do it. And just like I do not owe you to write code on a whim, the same way doctor is not obliged to slave himself to provide health care for you. (Or are we back to slave times, except this time based on professional occupation?) When specific doctor provides, or someone donates/volunteers their time/money/etc - you naturally grateful for that, or at least should be, otherwise good luck with that. If you do not believe me, try to set up giveaway of some product. You immediately find out what I am talking about.
hkmurakami 9y ago
I'd go do every medical test and examination I'd be entitled to since I no longer have a cost associated with it. I.e. What CA Single payer is proposing.
- michaelchisari 9y ago
  > every medical test and examination You would be a statistical outlier. People don't go to the hospital for fun.
  - hkmurakami 9y ago
    That's verbatim what the nirse's union is saying...
    - michaelchisari 9y ago
      Citation needed.
      - hkmurakami 9y ago
        Citation: friend who is active in local politics who was at the CA state DNC convention last month in meetings.
  - hkmurakami 9y ago
    Also Japan has this exact problem because their elderly _do_ go to the hospital for fun since it only costs them $5 to visit a primary care physician. (65+ year old people only copay 10%) Their system is completely overloaded due to their health care incentives.
  - thephyber 9y ago
    I think you probably mean "people like me". If you are on HN, you are likely to be employed, curious, affluent (or on your way), educated, rational. There are lonely people who call QVC just to talk to the salesperson and end up buying whatever they are selling at that time. Those people also end up in the hospital and may realize it's cheaper if their copay is tiny or non-existent. That said, I don't think it's limited to statistical outliers. The average, middle-class, insured family[1] is already likely to go to the emergency room even when they don't need to, causing long waits and drastically raising costs. Single-payer _may_ help with this (assuming there is much better communication about when to go, where to go, better scheduling tools, nurses available on the phone to mitigate emergency room visits, etc), but it's not a given. [1] http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2008/09/the_allure_of_the_onestop_shop.html http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_exa...

it would be treated exactly like people want universal healthcare - everyone just accepted they deserve one, without being grateful for it. Unlike such funds GoFundMe recipients know exactly who gave them life. This is very powerful distinction.

skywhopper 9y ago
What about the people who don't have a network of friends and acquaintances with enough extra money to help pay their bills? What about chronic problems that require thousands or more dollars each year to address and never end? Should those people just keep begging? Eventually that will destroy their relationships if they kept trying it year after year. But I'm confused why you think gratefulness and knowing how "gave them life" is key. If my work-provided insurance plan pays for medicine I need to survive, who should I be supplicating myself to to satisfy your moral demands for appropriate gratefulness? Do I have less value as a human being in your eyes because I accepted payment from a faceless remote corporation instead of by begging my social network to give me the money?
- hippich 9y ago
  Not sure why you switched it to personal attack here. I personally have no demands about you using your insurance plan you paid for. I just explain how people who get something for free from something very abstract they could care less about, do not value what they get. Health care is not naturally given. Someone have to do it. And just like I do not owe you to write code on a whim, the same way doctor is not obliged to slave himself to provide health care for you. (Or are we back to slave times, except this time based on professional occupation?) When specific doctor provides, or someone donates/volunteers their time/money/etc - you naturally grateful for that, or at least should be, otherwise good luck with that. If you do not believe me, try to set up giveaway of some product. You immediately find out what I am talking about.

hkmurakami 9y ago

I'd go do every medical test and examination I'd be entitled to since I no longer have a cost associated with it. I.e. What CA Single payer is proposing.

michaelchisari 9y ago
> every medical test and examination You would be a statistical outlier. People don't go to the hospital for fun.
- hkmurakami 9y ago
  That's verbatim what the nirse's union is saying...
  - michaelchisari 9y ago
    Citation needed.
    - hkmurakami 9y ago
      Citation: friend who is active in local politics who was at the CA state DNC convention last month in meetings.
- hkmurakami 9y ago
  Also Japan has this exact problem because their elderly _do_ go to the hospital for fun since it only costs them $5 to visit a primary care physician. (65+ year old people only copay 10%) Their system is completely overloaded due to their health care incentives.
- thephyber 9y ago
  I think you probably mean "people like me". If you are on HN, you are likely to be employed, curious, affluent (or on your way), educated, rational. There are lonely people who call QVC just to talk to the salesperson and end up buying whatever they are selling at that time. Those people also end up in the hospital and may realize it's cheaper if their copay is tiny or non-existent. That said, I don't think it's limited to statistical outliers. The average, middle-class, insured family[1] is already likely to go to the emergency room even when they don't need to, causing long waits and drastically raising costs. Single-payer _may_ help with this (assuming there is much better communication about when to go, where to go, better scheduling tools, nurses available on the phone to mitigate emergency room visits, etc), but it's not a given. [1] http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2008/09/the_allure_of_the_onestop_shop.html http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_exa...