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A law passed in 2015 in France [0] that makes it mandatory, starting 1/1/2018, for any business (including "auto entrepreneur", what you have to register as to
by GuiA 9y ago
A law passed in 2015 in France [0] that makes it mandatory, starting 1/1/2018, for any business (including "auto entrepreneur", what you have to register as to be a freelancer or such in France) to used "certified" software for accounting.
Is a tool like Excel, which the vast majority of small companies are currently using, certified? Of course not! You have to pay for special software like Ciel Devis (9 euros/month) or Ciel Compta (9 euros/month). The keen observer will notice that they're produced by the same company, whose former CEO had a stint at Intuit - another software company that is very good at manipulating legislation to push its own interests.
If you get audited and are not in conformity, you get a 7500 euro fine and 60 days to correct your situation.
But what if you are serving foreign clients, and use foreign software to produce invoices that fulfill local regulation? Or if you developed in house software to meet your very particular needs? Heh, sucks to be you, go give money to Ciel.
That being said, the law says that if you do your accounting without software, you don't fall under the regulation. So can you just do your accounting in Excel, copy it by hand, and show that when you get inspected? Who knows.
There are many, many cases like this of useless bureaucracy and regulation in France that make it a nightmare for anyone to start and run their own business. My friends who have been "auto entrepreneur" in the past have hated every minute of it, and most of them have moved to other countries. I'm French, likely to start a company in the next 5 years, and would never go back to France to do it.
The government doesn't really want to create an environment where small businesses can flourish - no one has the proper background to really get what factors contribute to that. What they want is to get the big bucks from venture capital flowing into the country so that they can boast about having a French Google or Airbnb or whatever, which is purely a vanity metric and not particularly constructive for the economy.
[0]: http://www.codial.fr/wp-content/uploads/BOI-TVA-DECLA-30-10-30-20160803.pdf http://www.codial.fr/wp-content/uploads/BOI-TVA-DECLA-30-10-...
- camus2 9y agoAbsolutely outrageous, and there is no free open source alternative? how is this even possible. > Is a tool like Excel, which the vast majority of small companies are currently using, certified? Of course not! You have to pay for special software like Ciel Devis (9 euros/month) or Ciel Compta (9 euros/month). The keen observer will notice that they're produced by the same company, whose former CEO had a stint at Intuit - another software company that is very good at manipulating legislation to push its own interests. Fucking "socialists". Macron need to struct down this law, this is straight out corruption, there is no other way to say it.
- relyio 9y ago>A law passed in 2015 in France [0] that makes it mandatory, starting 1/1/2018, for any business (including "auto entrepreneur", what you have to register as to be a freelancer or such in France) to used "certified" software for accounting. Macron has been elected in 2017. Given this article is about how he is sparking a tech boom in the country, I hardly see how that's his fault, or even related.
- GuiA 9y agoLawmaking in France is not confined to the president. If there is to be a tech boom in France, it will be the result of years and years of judicious, thoughtful, policy that makes life easy for small businesses (tech or not); not one time acts of symbolic VC cash investment. The purpose of my message is to show that French lawmakers are still very far from understanding this. I don't know where in my post you find me blaming Macron for this.
- cmurf 9y agoThey can make you buy a computer? And dictate what operating system you use? Seems like a freedom of association problem, but I don't know anything about French constitutional law, or if there's any EU office that can address this. I'd say you should be able to use pen and paper with a traditional ledger. I would sooner do this (having already done it before) than be required to buy certain software, just out of principle. Anyway, at least in the U.S. I've never heard of this. Manhattan has ludicrous layers of taxes that a huge PITA for a small business to learn about let alone comply with if you do it yourself. But there's no software mandate. You just have to be able to show your work if asked.
- GuiA 9y agoThe law specifies that you don't have to use "certified" software if you do your accounting outside of a software system. So they don't "make you" buy a computer; but it is still ridiculous because of how hazy it is. For instance, as I mentioned in my message, if I use Excel for part of my accounting but do the final ledgers by hand, will I get fined if I get inspected? Additionally, the law says that any software has to be certified again for any new major version. But in the world of web software and continuous deployment, how does that work? It's kind of a software equivalent of the ship of Theseus - if my software ends up being completely refactored and rewritten over the years but doesn't change major version, do I need to get it re-certified or not? It's just nonsensical lawmaking done by people who don't understand tech at a fundamental level.
- aweb 9y agoFYI they are planning to remove this requirement, so it should not be a bother much longer
- jbk 9y agoSee also this article on NXi about it https://www.nextinpact.com/news/104552-auto-entrepreneurs-obligation-dutiliser-logiciel-anti-fraude-va-presque-disparaitre.htm https://www.nextinpact.com/news/104552-auto-entrepreneurs-ob...
- thibaut_barrere 9y agoI came here to say that. Source: http://bfmbusiness.bfmtv.com/france/bercy-renonce-au-logiciel-obligatoire-pour-tous-les-auto-entrepreneurs-1187105.html http://bfmbusiness.bfmtv.com/france/bercy-renonce-au-logicie...