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Even some of the legal stuff that Wells Fargo does boggles the mind. My parents had a Wells Fargo mortgage. It's now been sold twice and I've had to setup autom

Even some of the legal stuff that Wells Fargo does boggles the mind. My parents had a Wells Fargo mortgage. It's now been sold twice and I've had to setup automatic monthly payments for them each time. I live in fear of two things... First, some enterprising fraudster will call/mail that they've acquired the loan and demand payment. Given how often loans are sold, it wouldn't take much conning to convince retirees that a payment is due and a check needs to be mailed to some P.O. Box. Second, these companies that buy up loans don't seem all that technically capable. I fear that, one day, my parents' loan will be bought by one without an automatic monthly payment system. Again, someone with shady morals could start a company that looks to buy mortgages on properties where the mortgage is a fraction of the cost of the home and then not offer a auto-pay feature. When people inevitably miss a couple of manual payments, they could aggressively try to foreclose. Both of these opportunities for abuse are made possible by banks with mostly positive reputations doing something that shouldn't be allowed. If a bank wants to offload debt that they've initiated, we should require them to continue to process customer payments on that debt and forward the money to whomever they sold to. Consumers should have the right to choose which companies they have business relationships with and we shouldn't have that relationship changed without our permission.

yardie 9y ago
My bank, when it can't send payment through ACH, will cut and mail a papercheck to the address on record.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  But when happens if the mortgage services doesn't process that payment and you begin to incur late fees and head towards preforeclosure through no fault of your own?
  - yardie 9y ago
    You send it certified. Then fax them and their lawyer a copy of the air bill and say see you in court. Trust me, slumlords pull this shit everyday with renters.
    - toomuchtodo 9y ago
      Trust me, I've seen people lose their homes through no fault of their own, because their servicer made mistakes and they had no legal recourse except getting a check for a few grand several years later as compensation. https://www.propublica.org/article/bank-errors-continue-to-cause-wrongful-foreclosures https://www.propublica.org/article/bank-errors-continue-to-c... "Bank Errors Continue to Cause Wrongful Foreclosures"
      - yardie 9y ago
        That article isn't the same. They stopped paying their mortgage because that was a requirement for the TARP loan modification program. They didn't get the modification and as a double whammy fell even further behind on payments. My issue is with banks, landlords, and utilities where you send payment and they act like you didn't. Then threaten you with all types of legalese. This happens all the time for long term, rent-controlled, and rent-stabilised tenants. The landlord is trying to find any reason to throw you out. I've spoken with housing advocates and legal aid on this. If the owner starts acting up, i.e. not cashing checks while simultaneously sending you eviction notices, document everything. Spend the extra dollars to send a certified letter and keep the receipts.
        toomuchtodo 9y ago
        > Spend the extra dollars to send a certified letter and keep the receipts. Entirely agree.
  - adam-fn 9y ago
    I had a similar experience with discounted-if-paid-promptly hospital bill. I got a call saying, essentially "we didn't move the money around our internal systems in time and now we want the rest of the money". Since I paid with a credit card I could make the case that I was charged before their deadline and they let it go.
    - robertcope 9y ago
      I've had similar things happen with my electric bill. I noticed at some point that I had been paying small late fees. Looking into it, they would cash my checks, but not credit the account until the day after the payment was due. They stopped doing it after I pointed it out, but that took a lot of convincing. I'm not convinced that it was an accident.
- awqrre 9y ago
  The problem can be with more tech. capable companies sometimes... for example, BoA can't send an electronic payment to Esurance or Vonage and these 2 companies won't accept physical checks either (you have to setup automatic payments through their respective websites) ... Note: This happened a year or 2 ago so it might have changed.
- sixdimensional 9y ago
  Be careful with this though. I learned recently that the hard way when a check was sent and lost in the mail. I had to petition with the bank to explain the issue, which they had to investigate, and then determine the outcome. Bill pay services usually deduct the amount of the check to be sent from your account and put it into a holding account before sending the check. The check sent acts more like a certified check than a personal check (because in a personal check, funds aren't withdrawn until the check is cashed). I have always thought this is a little fishy - why the bank can't issue a personal check for me without withdrawing the funds from my account... but there may be regulatory or liability issues involved for the bank. Bottom line, if you count on the bank to send a paper check for you, it's not EXACTLY the same as if you send a personal check yourself.
jerf 9y ago
You could consider refinancing with an entity that doesn't sell mortgages. I've had a mortgage with my credit union for about ten years now, and they still have it. And no, it wasn't just resold out from under me without my noticing it; I actually asked one of their reps once and they outright told me that they don't resell their mortgages. The downside is that as far as I know, I don't have a promise from them that they won't sell it, just a track record of not selling it. Still, if you're worried enough it may be worth considering. I recognize this is not a free option; you'd have to consider it as a form of insurance and consider whether you're willing to pay for it.
- PatentTroll 9y ago
  Does that exclude 'selling' to Fannie/Freddie? As I understand it this is considered a normal part of the process for mortgages
dragonwriter 9y ago
> Second, these companies that buy up loans don't seem all that technically capable. I fear that, one day, my parents' loan will be bought by one without an automatic monthly payment system. Again, someone with shady morals could start a company that looks to buy mortgages on properties where the mortgage is a fraction of the cost of the home and then not offer a auto-pay feature. When people inevitably miss a couple of manual payments, they could aggressively try to foreclose. Don't most consumer banks and credit unions these days have automatic bill payment systems that, if the recipient is incapable of recieving payment otherwise, fallback to mailing computer-printed checks, so that consumers get automatic payments even if the payees don't have their own system?
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

yardie 9y ago

My bank, when it can't send payment through ACH, will cut and mail a papercheck to the address on record.

toomuchtodo 9y ago
But when happens if the mortgage services doesn't process that payment and you begin to incur late fees and head towards preforeclosure through no fault of your own?
- yardie 9y ago
  You send it certified. Then fax them and their lawyer a copy of the air bill and say see you in court. Trust me, slumlords pull this shit everyday with renters.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    Trust me, I've seen people lose their homes through no fault of their own, because their servicer made mistakes and they had no legal recourse except getting a check for a few grand several years later as compensation. https://www.propublica.org/article/bank-errors-continue-to-cause-wrongful-foreclosures https://www.propublica.org/article/bank-errors-continue-to-c... "Bank Errors Continue to Cause Wrongful Foreclosures"
    - yardie 9y ago
      That article isn't the same. They stopped paying their mortgage because that was a requirement for the TARP loan modification program. They didn't get the modification and as a double whammy fell even further behind on payments. My issue is with banks, landlords, and utilities where you send payment and they act like you didn't. Then threaten you with all types of legalese. This happens all the time for long term, rent-controlled, and rent-stabilised tenants. The landlord is trying to find any reason to throw you out. I've spoken with housing advocates and legal aid on this. If the owner starts acting up, i.e. not cashing checks while simultaneously sending you eviction notices, document everything. Spend the extra dollars to send a certified letter and keep the receipts.
      - toomuchtodo 9y ago
        > Spend the extra dollars to send a certified letter and keep the receipts. Entirely agree.
- adam-fn 9y ago
  I had a similar experience with discounted-if-paid-promptly hospital bill. I got a call saying, essentially "we didn't move the money around our internal systems in time and now we want the rest of the money". Since I paid with a credit card I could make the case that I was charged before their deadline and they let it go.
  - robertcope 9y ago
    I've had similar things happen with my electric bill. I noticed at some point that I had been paying small late fees. Looking into it, they would cash my checks, but not credit the account until the day after the payment was due. They stopped doing it after I pointed it out, but that took a lot of convincing. I'm not convinced that it was an accident.
awqrre 9y ago
The problem can be with more tech. capable companies sometimes... for example, BoA can't send an electronic payment to Esurance or Vonage and these 2 companies won't accept physical checks either (you have to setup automatic payments through their respective websites) ... Note: This happened a year or 2 ago so it might have changed.
sixdimensional 9y ago
Be careful with this though. I learned recently that the hard way when a check was sent and lost in the mail. I had to petition with the bank to explain the issue, which they had to investigate, and then determine the outcome. Bill pay services usually deduct the amount of the check to be sent from your account and put it into a holding account before sending the check. The check sent acts more like a certified check than a personal check (because in a personal check, funds aren't withdrawn until the check is cashed). I have always thought this is a little fishy - why the bank can't issue a personal check for me without withdrawing the funds from my account... but there may be regulatory or liability issues involved for the bank. Bottom line, if you count on the bank to send a paper check for you, it's not EXACTLY the same as if you send a personal check yourself.

jerf 9y ago

You could consider refinancing with an entity that doesn't sell mortgages. I've had a mortgage with my credit union for about ten years now, and they still have it. And no, it wasn't just resold out from under me without my noticing it; I actually asked one of their reps once and they outright told me that they don't resell their mortgages. The downside is that as far as I know, I don't have a promise from them that they won't sell it, just a track record of not selling it. Still, if you're worried enough it may be worth considering. I recognize this is not a free option; you'd have to consider it as a form of insurance and consider whether you're willing to pay for it.

PatentTroll 9y ago
Does that exclude 'selling' to Fannie/Freddie? As I understand it this is considered a normal part of the process for mortgages

dragonwriter 9y ago

> Second, these companies that buy up loans don't seem all that technically capable. I fear that, one day, my parents' loan will be bought by one without an automatic monthly payment system. Again, someone with shady morals could start a company that looks to buy mortgages on properties where the mortgage is a fraction of the cost of the home and then not offer a auto-pay feature. When people inevitably miss a couple of manual payments, they could aggressively try to foreclose. Don't most consumer banks and credit unions these days have automatic bill payment systems that, if the recipient is incapable of recieving payment otherwise, fallback to mailing computer-printed checks, so that consumers get automatic payments even if the payees don't have their own system?

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]