8 ms·

I've spent some time on frequency correction for headphones and reference monitors in my home studio. If you'd like awesome headphones that have a truly flat fr

I've spent some time on frequency correction for headphones and reference monitors in my home studio. If you'd like awesome headphones that have a truly flat frequency response, that you can then adjust with EQ to your taste, one option is to get Sony MDR 7506's and run the audio output through a VST plugin (Using soundflower, ableton, etc) which corrects the EQ. You can either buy precalibrated headphones from sonarworks or use a generic but headphones specific calibration profile for the plugin. It's really cool hearing what they heard in the studio control room for the final mix. And often surprising. You can get a range of other precalibrated pro audio headphones or correction profiles from sonarworks. Consumer headphones are just silly IMHO. Artificially boosted frequencies with prices up to $400. A set of precalibrated MDR7506's is around $220. If you don't care about truly flat response with correction, you can get a set of AKG K240's for $100 bucks and they're super comfy, amazing sound and loved universally by audio pros.

Danihan 9y ago
Thank you for this comment, definitely gave me a different perspective.
ssambros 9y ago
> A set of precalibrated MDR7506's is around $220. And a set of almost identical noncalibrated Sony V6 is a whopping $60 on sale right now.
- atonse 9y ago
  On sale where?
  - seanp2k2 9y ago
    They're $100 on Amazon and $80 at B&H. $100 looks like the normal street price for them.
  - ssambros 9y ago
    There is a very popular site that tracks deals of that kind. Don't want to name the site here. There was a deal on V6 posted there a couple of days ago.
scriptkiddy 9y ago
I got myself a pair of the MDR7510s. I believe they are an "improved" version of the 7506s. I like them a lot.
rothbardrand 9y ago
How would you compare these to the Audio-Technica M50x, a popular headphone, that for me, after years of cheap devices was quite a revelation-- hugely better audio quality. Without going thru a lot of setup to shape the audio response, I'm not sure flat frequency response is ideal- in my environment, using a VST plugin seems problematic.
- dhp1161 9y ago
  M50x is bass heavy. 7506 are flatter/more accurate.
- swift 9y ago
  The Audio-Technica M50x is an amazing headphone for the price. I'd highly recommend it to anyone. I use somewhat more expensive headphones now (the B&W P7 Wireless) but I mainly upgraded because I wanted the optional Bluetooth support. The B&Ws cost more than twice as much, and they do sound better than the Audio-Technicas to my ear, but the difference isn't huge. For me, like you, upgrading from cheap headphones to the Audio-Technicas was a revelation, and I suspect another quantum leap in quality like that simply isn't possible.
  - snvzz 9y ago
    "was" would be more accurate. The price has gone up significantly due to its popularity, and there are far better options at the pricing range where it sits now. They're also significantly colored headphones; The cheaper m40x are actually more neutral.
    - eddieh 9y ago
      The M40fs headphones are great. The M40x headphones that replaced them are terrible. I love the M40fs headphones so much I bought 10 from eBay when I learned they'd been discontinued. Should be a lifetime supply, I hope.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- 9y ago
blacksmith_tb 9y ago
Wearing my K240s right now, I highly recommend them (especially for comfort, I can't wear most cans for extended periods without suffering, but the AKGs are great).
derefr 9y ago
> You can either buy precalibrated headphones from sonarworks or use a generic but headphones specific calibration profile for the plugin. Is there no generic feedback-loop-based calibration tool for audio EQ, equivalent to "monitor calibrators" for display gamma ramps?
- seanp2k2 9y ago
  There is, but getting good microphone placement for headphones is difficult. http://www.roomeqwizard.com http://www.roomeqwizard.com is the standard for this with home enthusiasts, and many affordable measuring mics have calibration files (typically provided by the mfg), but the frequency response of a headphone on YOUR head will be much different than having them free-air with a mic between the sides. They have model heads made from various materials to help with this, and measuring rigs of varying effectiveness have been used for a while. IEMS are even harder to measure, and here as well we see a market from the free earbuds you get at promos to $3k JH Laylas. The accuracy doesn't go up that much above a few hundred dollars, but they do sound different, and some people like + are willing to pay for it.
  - derefr 9y ago
    Ah, and here I was picturing something that combined vacuum bottles, sound baffling, and battery-powered DACs and ADCs so that no wires would have to cross the vacuum barrier. And also, de-wiring the cans of a headset from the headband so you could test each can individually. That's not the standard? I'm shocked, shocked!
snvzz 9y ago
Harman did a large study of frequency response preference, and came up with the harman FR target as ideal. Sennheiser HD600 (from 1997) is closest to this, has reasonably low THD, and is generally considered very good. It doesn't cost all that much, either, at $280 in amazon.com last I checked.
seanp2k2 9y ago
This is like saying that the Tesla P100D is the best car, and any other car more expensive is silly because the Tesla has the best acceleration. Frequency response is one aspect of sound, but it's not everything. Much about sound is subjective. I personally didnt't like the way Audeze LCD-2s sounded when I listened to a pair a coworker brought in, greatly preferring my Shure 1540s. There are, to be fair, plenty of headphones in the $150-$400 range which try to do something to the music (like add xxtreme bass) and end up not doing a very good job of it. Sony even made some, check out the MDR-XB500 and the super over-the-top MDR-XB1000 which apparently actually sounds pretty good. The Sonys you mentioned are great headphones and a super deal at $60. They are actually used in the pro world for stuff like location sound work and in studios. Another popular studio headphone which is a "a good deal" are Beyerdynamic DT770 Pros (~$175 street, you've probably seen them before). Giving either of these to someone who has no experience with nice headphones is a treat they won't forget if they're into music. I was lucky to get my first pair of nice headphones when I was about 14, some MDR-V700s. They hurt my head after about an hour of wearing them but they sounded way better than anything I had heard before (this was also in the 90s before headphones were a common hobby). It is for sure a game of diminishing returns beyond a few totally-great headphones which are actually used for making music. Other equipment also plays into this; the difference between a JDS Labs O2+ODAC and Chord Hugo + Cavalli Liquid Gold is there but probably not worth the price difference of a decent used car for most people. Go to a hi-fi store and listen to some setups with your own music. There are also headphone meets all over the place, and huge events for this stuff: http://www.canjamglobal.com http://www.canjamglobal.com and of course there is https://www.head-fi.org https://www.head-fi.org if you're interested in getting into this stuff.
- gwbas1c 9y ago
  When I needed a new pair of headphones, I went to guitar center and the salesman pointed me to the DT770s. Much better than going to the Apple store or Best Buy.
  - cr1895 9y ago
    I love my DT770s. Reasonably priced, well-constructed, comfortable (if a bit warm after a while), no sound leakage, and of course they sound fantastic. I often see artists of the music I listen to wearing them too, must be a good sign.
6stringmerc 9y ago
My Sennheiser HD280 Pro cans, about 15 years old by now, are about as flat and 2-3 hours wearable at a time as I could ever need and/or afford. Something amazing about learning how things "should" sound in a reference mode, and then go take it to other systems to try it out...burn CD, play in car, laptop speakers, earbuds from SoundCloud on an iPhone...
- snvzz 9y ago
  15 years is a lot. I own some HD380 Pro (reasonably flat for something closed, and supposedly a huge improvement over the HD280 which I haven't tested) and HD600 (flat as an ironing board), both purchased recently. I'm curious... how well have your HD280 Pro endured through these 15 years?
  - 6stringmerc 9y ago
    Fantastic, I think they've "broken in" and given me that impression of not really coloring the sound a lot. I've sweat through 2 sets of ear cushions and the headband. I've bought a replacement headband but just left it off. They've been so trusty I consider them my go-to even though I don't really get the chance to formally sit down in the old ways anymore (more on the go sketches).
    - snvzz 9y ago
      >"broken in" Known to be psychological. >not really coloring the sound http://graphs.headphone.com/index.php?graphID%5B0%5D=573&graphID%5B1%5D=533&graphID%5B2%5D=&graphID%5B3%5D=&scale=30&graphType=0&buttonSelection=Update+Graph http://graphs.headphone.com/index.php?graphID%5B0%5D=573&gra... HD600 make a good reference. Notice the raised bass and general shakiness on the HD280. The HD380 are sadly not plotted there, but there's this: http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/sennheiser-hd-600.php http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/sennheiser-... http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/sennheiser-hd-380-pro.php http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/sennheiser-... http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/sennheiser-hd-280-pro.php http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/sennheiser-... >I've sweat through 2 sets of ear cushions and the headband. I've bought a replacement headband but just left it off. Only 2 sets in 15 years? That's pretty durable. What happened to the headband?
lqdc13 9y ago
I had very similar headphones - Sony MDRV6 and I guess I never understood why they are so well regarded. They didn't sound very good on any of the music I listen to - some parts seemed way too quiet, while others were too loud. I am not an audiophile, but I mostly agree with this review: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/my-sony-mdr-v6-review-extremely-long.6149/ https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/my-sony-mdr-v6-review-extr... I later bought Symphonized Wraith headphones and they sounded much better to me.
jmileham 9y ago
> It's really cool hearing what they heard in the studio control room for the final mix. And often surprising. But that's not quite what you're hearing - you're typically hearing what happens after the final mix is shipped to a mastering engineer who listened to the recording on a variety of intentionally flawed sound systems (probably including the "car test" - playing the tune on a car stereo with road noise, which is about as hostile an environment as people will expect to enjoy music in). Then the engineer threaded the needle to come up with the most pleasing sound they could muster for the intended market. In the process the recording will have been compressed and EQed quite a bit, and likely will sound a good bit richer at a given loudness than it did when the mix was done - you should be able to "hear through" the mix better than before, unless the mastering engineer was simply going for loudness-at-all-costs, in which case, it might just be loud. Anyway, not to take away from your point - good headphones, or even just headphones with different frequency response than you're used to, will open up different details of a mix, for sure, and flat response will give you the best chance to hear any details that weren't pushed to the fore intentionally, which can indeed be eye-opening.
bostik 9y ago
AKG K240 is a marvel of audio quality. I bought one pair more than 15 years ago. Followed quickly up with another one so I could have the same crisp sound both at work and at home. Both are still in active use. Replacement earpads cost a few pounds a pair, and you need to buy them every 4-5 years. My wife loves them too, so these days our household has four pairs of K240. (One of them a Mk2. I'm not golden eared enough to detect any difference. The same reason I originally didn't bother to pay the Sennheiser markup.) Oddly enough I experienced something similar when hunting for proper loudspeakers. I spent some time in specialist shops and actually tested different pairs with my own selection of music. I eventually ended up getting Amphion Heliums[0]. The things were not exactly cheap[1], but they still sounded a LOT better than notably more expensive competitors. Similar B&W speakers would have cost 40% more - and those babies are not bad but they never got even close to the clarity. Or the price. I later learned from couple of audiophile friends that the loudspeakers I chose were known to be "frighteningly accurate" and as such both revered and often avoided by professional studios. The friends were correct. Every mixing and recording mistake became painfully clear. Both me and my wife have been able to spot badly done recordings in 80's and 90's TV shows. (Have you ever tried to watch a nostalgic TV show episode and realise that the left and right channel balance is constantly fucked?) 0: http://www.amphion.fi/en/products/helium-410/ http://www.amphion.fi/en/products/helium-410/ [note: this is a MUCH more recent model. The ones I bought have not been in production for maybe a decade.] 1: €300 a piece might be peanuts to audio pros but for a home user it's not an easy purchase. Especially as you still need a good amp to go with them.
anotheryou 9y ago
For windwos you don't need an vst for a global EQ with this: https://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/ And for measuring your room for correction: http://www.roomeqwizard.com/ http://www.roomeqwizard.com/ (find yourself a good tutorial on this one)

Danihan 9y ago

Thank you for this comment, definitely gave me a different perspective.

ssambros 9y ago

> A set of precalibrated MDR7506's is around $220. And a set of almost identical noncalibrated Sony V6 is a whopping $60 on sale right now.

atonse 9y ago
On sale where?
- seanp2k2 9y ago
  They're $100 on Amazon and $80 at B&H. $100 looks like the normal street price for them.
- ssambros 9y ago
  There is a very popular site that tracks deals of that kind. Don't want to name the site here. There was a deal on V6 posted there a couple of days ago.

scriptkiddy 9y ago

I got myself a pair of the MDR7510s. I believe they are an "improved" version of the 7506s. I like them a lot.

rothbardrand 9y ago

How would you compare these to the Audio-Technica M50x, a popular headphone, that for me, after years of cheap devices was quite a revelation-- hugely better audio quality. Without going thru a lot of setup to shape the audio response, I'm not sure flat frequency response is ideal- in my environment, using a VST plugin seems problematic.

dhp1161 9y ago
M50x is bass heavy. 7506 are flatter/more accurate.
swift 9y ago
The Audio-Technica M50x is an amazing headphone for the price. I'd highly recommend it to anyone. I use somewhat more expensive headphones now (the B&W P7 Wireless) but I mainly upgraded because I wanted the optional Bluetooth support. The B&Ws cost more than twice as much, and they do sound better than the Audio-Technicas to my ear, but the difference isn't huge. For me, like you, upgrading from cheap headphones to the Audio-Technicas was a revelation, and I suspect another quantum leap in quality like that simply isn't possible.
- snvzz 9y ago
  "was" would be more accurate. The price has gone up significantly due to its popularity, and there are far better options at the pricing range where it sits now. They're also significantly colored headphones; The cheaper m40x are actually more neutral.
  - eddieh 9y ago
    The M40fs headphones are great. The M40x headphones that replaced them are terrible. I love the M40fs headphones so much I bought 10 from eBay when I learned they'd been discontinued. Should be a lifetime supply, I hope.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
9y ago

blacksmith_tb 9y ago

Wearing my K240s right now, I highly recommend them (especially for comfort, I can't wear most cans for extended periods without suffering, but the AKGs are great).

derefr 9y ago

> You can either buy precalibrated headphones from sonarworks or use a generic but headphones specific calibration profile for the plugin. Is there no generic feedback-loop-based calibration tool for audio EQ, equivalent to "monitor calibrators" for display gamma ramps?

seanp2k2 9y ago
There is, but getting good microphone placement for headphones is difficult. http://www.roomeqwizard.com http://www.roomeqwizard.com is the standard for this with home enthusiasts, and many affordable measuring mics have calibration files (typically provided by the mfg), but the frequency response of a headphone on YOUR head will be much different than having them free-air with a mic between the sides. They have model heads made from various materials to help with this, and measuring rigs of varying effectiveness have been used for a while. IEMS are even harder to measure, and here as well we see a market from the free earbuds you get at promos to $3k JH Laylas. The accuracy doesn't go up that much above a few hundred dollars, but they do sound different, and some people like + are willing to pay for it.
- derefr 9y ago
  Ah, and here I was picturing something that combined vacuum bottles, sound baffling, and battery-powered DACs and ADCs so that no wires would have to cross the vacuum barrier. And also, de-wiring the cans of a headset from the headband so you could test each can individually. That's not the standard? I'm shocked, shocked!

snvzz 9y ago

Harman did a large study of frequency response preference, and came up with the harman FR target as ideal. Sennheiser HD600 (from 1997) is closest to this, has reasonably low THD, and is generally considered very good. It doesn't cost all that much, either, at $280 in amazon.com last I checked.

seanp2k2 9y ago

This is like saying that the Tesla P100D is the best car, and any other car more expensive is silly because the Tesla has the best acceleration. Frequency response is one aspect of sound, but it's not everything. Much about sound is subjective. I personally didnt't like the way Audeze LCD-2s sounded when I listened to a pair a coworker brought in, greatly preferring my Shure 1540s. There are, to be fair, plenty of headphones in the $150-$400 range which try to do something to the music (like add xxtreme bass) and end up not doing a very good job of it. Sony even made some, check out the MDR-XB500 and the super over-the-top MDR-XB1000 which apparently actually sounds pretty good. The Sonys you mentioned are great headphones and a super deal at $60. They are actually used in the pro world for stuff like location sound work and in studios. Another popular studio headphone which is a "a good deal" are Beyerdynamic DT770 Pros (~$175 street, you've probably seen them before). Giving either of these to someone who has no experience with nice headphones is a treat they won't forget if they're into music. I was lucky to get my first pair of nice headphones when I was about 14, some MDR-V700s. They hurt my head after about an hour of wearing them but they sounded way better than anything I had heard before (this was also in the 90s before headphones were a common hobby). It is for sure a game of diminishing returns beyond a few totally-great headphones which are actually used for making music. Other equipment also plays into this; the difference between a JDS Labs O2+ODAC and Chord Hugo + Cavalli Liquid Gold is there but probably not worth the price difference of a decent used car for most people. Go to a hi-fi store and listen to some setups with your own music. There are also headphone meets all over the place, and huge events for this stuff: http://www.canjamglobal.com http://www.canjamglobal.com and of course there is https://www.head-fi.org https://www.head-fi.org if you're interested in getting into this stuff.

gwbas1c 9y ago
When I needed a new pair of headphones, I went to guitar center and the salesman pointed me to the DT770s. Much better than going to the Apple store or Best Buy.
- cr1895 9y ago
  I love my DT770s. Reasonably priced, well-constructed, comfortable (if a bit warm after a while), no sound leakage, and of course they sound fantastic. I often see artists of the music I listen to wearing them too, must be a good sign.

6stringmerc 9y ago

My Sennheiser HD280 Pro cans, about 15 years old by now, are about as flat and 2-3 hours wearable at a time as I could ever need and/or afford. Something amazing about learning how things "should" sound in a reference mode, and then go take it to other systems to try it out...burn CD, play in car, laptop speakers, earbuds from SoundCloud on an iPhone...

snvzz 9y ago
15 years is a lot. I own some HD380 Pro (reasonably flat for something closed, and supposedly a huge improvement over the HD280 which I haven't tested) and HD600 (flat as an ironing board), both purchased recently. I'm curious... how well have your HD280 Pro endured through these 15 years?
- 6stringmerc 9y ago
  Fantastic, I think they've "broken in" and given me that impression of not really coloring the sound a lot. I've sweat through 2 sets of ear cushions and the headband. I've bought a replacement headband but just left it off. They've been so trusty I consider them my go-to even though I don't really get the chance to formally sit down in the old ways anymore (more on the go sketches).
  - snvzz 9y ago
    >"broken in" Known to be psychological. >not really coloring the sound http://graphs.headphone.com/index.php?graphID%5B0%5D=573&graphID%5B1%5D=533&graphID%5B2%5D=&graphID%5B3%5D=&scale=30&graphType=0&buttonSelection=Update+Graph http://graphs.headphone.com/index.php?graphID%5B0%5D=573&gra... HD600 make a good reference. Notice the raised bass and general shakiness on the HD280. The HD380 are sadly not plotted there, but there's this: http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/sennheiser-hd-600.php http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/sennheiser-... http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/sennheiser-hd-380-pro.php http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/sennheiser-... http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/sennheiser-hd-280-pro.php http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/sennheiser-... >I've sweat through 2 sets of ear cushions and the headband. I've bought a replacement headband but just left it off. Only 2 sets in 15 years? That's pretty durable. What happened to the headband?

lqdc13 9y ago

I had very similar headphones - Sony MDRV6 and I guess I never understood why they are so well regarded. They didn't sound very good on any of the music I listen to - some parts seemed way too quiet, while others were too loud. I am not an audiophile, but I mostly agree with this review: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/my-sony-mdr-v6-review-extremely-long.6149/ https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/my-sony-mdr-v6-review-extr... I later bought Symphonized Wraith headphones and they sounded much better to me.

jmileham 9y ago

> It's really cool hearing what they heard in the studio control room for the final mix. And often surprising. But that's not quite what you're hearing - you're typically hearing what happens after the final mix is shipped to a mastering engineer who listened to the recording on a variety of intentionally flawed sound systems (probably including the "car test" - playing the tune on a car stereo with road noise, which is about as hostile an environment as people will expect to enjoy music in). Then the engineer threaded the needle to come up with the most pleasing sound they could muster for the intended market. In the process the recording will have been compressed and EQed quite a bit, and likely will sound a good bit richer at a given loudness than it did when the mix was done - you should be able to "hear through" the mix better than before, unless the mastering engineer was simply going for loudness-at-all-costs, in which case, it might just be loud. Anyway, not to take away from your point - good headphones, or even just headphones with different frequency response than you're used to, will open up different details of a mix, for sure, and flat response will give you the best chance to hear any details that weren't pushed to the fore intentionally, which can indeed be eye-opening.

bostik 9y ago

AKG K240 is a marvel of audio quality. I bought one pair more than 15 years ago. Followed quickly up with another one so I could have the same crisp sound both at work and at home. Both are still in active use. Replacement earpads cost a few pounds a pair, and you need to buy them every 4-5 years. My wife loves them too, so these days our household has four pairs of K240. (One of them a Mk2. I'm not golden eared enough to detect any difference. The same reason I originally didn't bother to pay the Sennheiser markup.) Oddly enough I experienced something similar when hunting for proper loudspeakers. I spent some time in specialist shops and actually tested different pairs with my own selection of music. I eventually ended up getting Amphion Heliums[0]. The things were not exactly cheap[1], but they still sounded a LOT better than notably more expensive competitors. Similar B&W speakers would have cost 40% more - and those babies are not bad but they never got even close to the clarity. Or the price. I later learned from couple of audiophile friends that the loudspeakers I chose were known to be "frighteningly accurate" and as such both revered and often avoided by professional studios. The friends were correct. Every mixing and recording mistake became painfully clear. Both me and my wife have been able to spot badly done recordings in 80's and 90's TV shows. (Have you ever tried to watch a nostalgic TV show episode and realise that the left and right channel balance is constantly fucked?) 0: http://www.amphion.fi/en/products/helium-410/ http://www.amphion.fi/en/products/helium-410/ [note: this is a MUCH more recent model. The ones I bought have not been in production for maybe a decade.] 1: €300 a piece might be peanuts to audio pros but for a home user it's not an easy purchase. Especially as you still need a good amp to go with them.

anotheryou 9y ago

For windwos you don't need an vst for a global EQ with this: https://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/ And for measuring your room for correction: http://www.roomeqwizard.com/ http://www.roomeqwizard.com/ (find yourself a good tutorial on this one)