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> The State will of course try to slow or halt the spread of this technology, citing national security concerns, use of the technology by drug dealers and tax e

by nannal 9y ago

> The State will of course try to slow or halt the spread of this technology, citing national security concerns, use of the technology by drug dealers and tax evaders... Bitcoin Silkroad The crypto wars The crypto wars 2: The empire strikes back and that's just one poignant sentence in the fairly small but very accurate manifesto.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
Ajedi32 9y ago
Also this bit: > An anonymous computerized market will even make possible abhorrent markets for assassinations and extortion. Various criminal and foreign elements will be active users of CryptoNet. But this will not halt the spread of crypto anarchy. See Silk Road, Bitcoin, Monero
- swordswinger12 9y ago
  Some IC3 people at Cornell have been looking at this in the context of smart contracts: http://www.initc3.org/files/Gyges.pdf http://www.initc3.org/files/Gyges.pdf
matt4077 9y ago
It's quite funny to see people promoting such conspiracy theories, considering they've already been proven wrong by reality. Apart from some banana republics, governments around the world have been incredibly relaxed with regards to Bitcoin. The rules that have been established are as favourable as anyone could imagine (i. e. trading being exempt from VAT etc.). Yes, they have insisted on existing rules, mostly of the know-your-customer variety. It's funny you're citing "national security concerns, use of the technology by drug dealers and tax evaders", as if those were just talking points to hide the real reasons. Because for the life of me I can't think of any other, legal, activity governments are trying to suppress by regulating bitcoin. What exactly is that killer app of bitcoin that so frightens the establishment?
- tudorconstantin 9y ago
  "What exactly is that killer app of bitcoin that so frightens the establishment?" Right now in order to spend ones bitcoins (with a few exceptions) one has to change them into fiat currency and that's where the establishment can monitor and control the money flow. What will happen when a critical mass of service providers and product sellers will gladly accept crypto coins? That's when one can hide his cash reserves from the prying eyes of the state. And they'll be able to pay smaller and smaller taxes. And I doubt that the establishment will be happy to have smaller and smaller budgets at their disposal.
  - matt4077 9y ago
    Yes, probably. It's just slightly insane to think you can opt-out of paying taxes via technology, or that taxes are somehow for the benefit of some nebulous "establishment". That's empirically true, for only a tiny sliver of very strange people still fantasise about some Randian utopia of every-man-for-himself. And it's logically inescapable, since there's no way to sustain today's societies without the cooperation established by taxes.
    - ersii 9y ago
      Why do you consider it to be (just?) slightly insane to think that one could opt-out of paying taxes with technology?
    - cinquemb 9y ago
      >since there's no way to sustain today's societies without the cooperation established by taxes. To the degree one can differentiate societies sustained by taxes from sustained by lines of credit extended to societies in promise of future taxes of which are now under question… New "establishments"[0] will form that better serve those who reap the benefits of engaging in crypto-economic behaviors, Old ones will die/become obsoleted/increasingly ineffective at enforcing their diktats, some overlap of functionalities may exist/remain between such. Same as it ever was. 10k software engineers effectively dodging/avoiding taxes on 100k/y of income, who can organize/allocate resources to some other ends seems like a plausible block of people to put up some effective asymmetrical resistance against taxes to governments of various sizes over the world. Yet still a drop in the bucket in terms of population size. Do a few engineers who are unable to imagine such, really pose a threat agaisnt people are/trying to create something new? [0] I use this very loosely, could be traditional meat spaces ones, or decentralized digital networks with active and passive mechanisms for ensuring survival.
ksteigerwald 9y ago
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-14/you-wont-believe-stupid-new-law-against-cash-and-bitcoin http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-14/you-wont-believe-st... This guy seems to think so ^
vkou 9y ago
Silkroad was indeed primarily used by drug dealers. Bitcoin was not shut down because of it. Bitcoin is, however, frequently used to launder stolen bitcoin.
- al_chemist 9y ago
  > Bitcoin is, however, frequently used to launder stolen bitcoin. Bikes are frequently used to launder stolen bikes.

by nannal 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

Ajedi32 9y ago

Also this bit: > An anonymous computerized market will even make possible abhorrent markets for assassinations and extortion. Various criminal and foreign elements will be active users of CryptoNet. But this will not halt the spread of crypto anarchy. See Silk Road, Bitcoin, Monero

swordswinger12 9y ago
Some IC3 people at Cornell have been looking at this in the context of smart contracts: http://www.initc3.org/files/Gyges.pdf http://www.initc3.org/files/Gyges.pdf

matt4077 9y ago

It's quite funny to see people promoting such conspiracy theories, considering they've already been proven wrong by reality. Apart from some banana republics, governments around the world have been incredibly relaxed with regards to Bitcoin. The rules that have been established are as favourable as anyone could imagine (i. e. trading being exempt from VAT etc.). Yes, they have insisted on existing rules, mostly of the know-your-customer variety. It's funny you're citing "national security concerns, use of the technology by drug dealers and tax evaders", as if those were just talking points to hide the real reasons. Because for the life of me I can't think of any other, legal, activity governments are trying to suppress by regulating bitcoin. What exactly is that killer app of bitcoin that so frightens the establishment?

tudorconstantin 9y ago
"What exactly is that killer app of bitcoin that so frightens the establishment?" Right now in order to spend ones bitcoins (with a few exceptions) one has to change them into fiat currency and that's where the establishment can monitor and control the money flow. What will happen when a critical mass of service providers and product sellers will gladly accept crypto coins? That's when one can hide his cash reserves from the prying eyes of the state. And they'll be able to pay smaller and smaller taxes. And I doubt that the establishment will be happy to have smaller and smaller budgets at their disposal.
- matt4077 9y ago
  Yes, probably. It's just slightly insane to think you can opt-out of paying taxes via technology, or that taxes are somehow for the benefit of some nebulous "establishment". That's empirically true, for only a tiny sliver of very strange people still fantasise about some Randian utopia of every-man-for-himself. And it's logically inescapable, since there's no way to sustain today's societies without the cooperation established by taxes.
  - ersii 9y ago
    Why do you consider it to be (just?) slightly insane to think that one could opt-out of paying taxes with technology?
  - cinquemb 9y ago
    >since there's no way to sustain today's societies without the cooperation established by taxes. To the degree one can differentiate societies sustained by taxes from sustained by lines of credit extended to societies in promise of future taxes of which are now under question… New "establishments"[0] will form that better serve those who reap the benefits of engaging in crypto-economic behaviors, Old ones will die/become obsoleted/increasingly ineffective at enforcing their diktats, some overlap of functionalities may exist/remain between such. Same as it ever was. 10k software engineers effectively dodging/avoiding taxes on 100k/y of income, who can organize/allocate resources to some other ends seems like a plausible block of people to put up some effective asymmetrical resistance against taxes to governments of various sizes over the world. Yet still a drop in the bucket in terms of population size. Do a few engineers who are unable to imagine such, really pose a threat agaisnt people are/trying to create something new? [0] I use this very loosely, could be traditional meat spaces ones, or decentralized digital networks with active and passive mechanisms for ensuring survival.

ksteigerwald 9y ago

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-14/you-wont-believe-stupid-new-law-against-cash-and-bitcoin http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-14/you-wont-believe-st... This guy seems to think so ^

vkou 9y ago

Silkroad was indeed primarily used by drug dealers. Bitcoin was not shut down because of it. Bitcoin is, however, frequently used to launder stolen bitcoin.

al_chemist 9y ago
> Bitcoin is, however, frequently used to launder stolen bitcoin. Bikes are frequently used to launder stolen bikes.