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Normally I wouldn't post something about urinals to HN just because it's in Wired, but this is actually a fascinating article about a new technology's introduct

Normally I wouldn't post something about urinals to HN just because it's in Wired, but this is actually a fascinating article about a new technology's introduction being delayed by resistance from trade unions (in this case, plumbers).

_delirium 16y ago
Although I thought the insistence on running pipes was a waste, it turned out at my university to be a good thing they installed the pipes (capped off initially) even though they were installing waterfree urinals, because after they kept clogging up and cost way more in maintenance costs than they were saving in water, they switched back to low-flush urinals. If they hadn't run the capped-off pipes initially, they would've been stuck.
- warfangle 16y ago
  It seems as though if they're properly (and regularly) maintained, they don't clog. Sounds like your university's periodic (compared to acute - think janitor) maintenance workers were improperly trained on how to care for them. The second page of the article explains this. (edit: on second thought, it was a university. Knowing what university students tend to put in urinals, I'm not surprised they clogged even with proper maintenance)
  - _delirium 16y ago
    I agree it's probably possible to maintain them well, but it seems it's still a cost. If nothing else, you have to pay for better maintenance workers, or more oversight of them.
    - brianpan 16y ago
      I've seen these toilets in action and from my few encounters, they work as advertised. But after reading about how they work, I have reservations on the design. Depending on maintenance for keeping sewer gases from escaping seems failure prone. Humans err (and get lazy). I'd much rather depend on plumbing codes that have been tested over decades and work "automatically" than depending on changing a cartridge. What happens if a bathroom with a waterless toilet is abandoned or isn't maintained regularly?
      - inferno0069 16y ago
        The traditional U-trap can fail if abandoned or isn't used regularly too. The water eventually evaporates.
        eru 16y ago
        Happened to me regularly when returning from summer holidays.
        ars 16y ago
        To prevent it, put a small amount of mineral oil (baby oil) in the trap. It will float on top and prevent the water from evaporating.
        eru 16y ago
        I guess vegetable oil should also work? By the way, I heard of the same trick for keeping water in your vases.
        deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
        ars 16y ago
        Vegetable oil will oxidize and turn into a sticky mess.
        eru 16y ago
        OK, thanks.
  - misterbwong 16y ago
    They should design a "self cleaning" model that actually uses the piping behind the urinal to flush once a week or so. It seems like this would resolve the need to rely on human maintenance, although the urinal wouldn't truly be waterless anymore.
dtf 16y ago
It's not just the trade unions. Here's a quote from a similar story in the Washington Post: "Users complain that high-efficiency toilets, which use less water than traditional models, require two flushes to do the job. Behind such objections stands this truth: America remains a flush-oriented society, and the more powerful the flush, the better. "It was a morale issue," Anja S. Caldwell, green building chief for the Montgomery County public school system, said of initial resistance to the 50 waterless urinals introduced over the past year. "People thought that by taking the flush away, you're taking an entitlement." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/02/AR2006060201831.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06...
- SoftwareMaven 16y ago
  If that's what people think, then by all means, get all flushing urinals out of our society. I would readily give the gallon of water from my urinal to my "standard" toilet flush for when I need it. ___ [ ] --- (@) -
agentultra 16y ago
Been happening with coal since the introduction of nuclear power. The anti-nuclear/anti-weaponization movement didn't help either. Great article. Just goes to show that there's still so much more to innovate out there.
EliAndrewC 16y ago
I'd say that this is especially relevant to hackers in corporate environments because of this passage: "Hansen heard a flood of complaints early on: The urinals stank. They were dirty. Where was the flush handle? In one building, the complaints were so vociferous that Hansen started an investigation. He found that the bathrooms did indeed stink, but the urinals appeared clean .... ... The urinals, however, emitted nothing. The cartridges were doing their job. Hansen moved the sewer vent and replaced the cracked toilet. The complaints stopped. Hansen concluded that the smell had always been there, but people didn’t have anything to blame it on until the new urinals arrived." I've experienced this many times. I create/modify/install PROGRAM_X and immediately receive complaints that it's causing problems on the server where it's running. Investigation eventually reveals that these problems have been going on for some time, but now there's something to blame. I'm sure I'm not alone.

_delirium 16y ago

Although I thought the insistence on running pipes was a waste, it turned out at my university to be a good thing they installed the pipes (capped off initially) even though they were installing waterfree urinals, because after they kept clogging up and cost way more in maintenance costs than they were saving in water, they switched back to low-flush urinals. If they hadn't run the capped-off pipes initially, they would've been stuck.

warfangle 16y ago
It seems as though if they're properly (and regularly) maintained, they don't clog. Sounds like your university's periodic (compared to acute - think janitor) maintenance workers were improperly trained on how to care for them. The second page of the article explains this. (edit: on second thought, it was a university. Knowing what university students tend to put in urinals, I'm not surprised they clogged even with proper maintenance)
- _delirium 16y ago
  I agree it's probably possible to maintain them well, but it seems it's still a cost. If nothing else, you have to pay for better maintenance workers, or more oversight of them.
  - brianpan 16y ago
    I've seen these toilets in action and from my few encounters, they work as advertised. But after reading about how they work, I have reservations on the design. Depending on maintenance for keeping sewer gases from escaping seems failure prone. Humans err (and get lazy). I'd much rather depend on plumbing codes that have been tested over decades and work "automatically" than depending on changing a cartridge. What happens if a bathroom with a waterless toilet is abandoned or isn't maintained regularly?
    - inferno0069 16y ago
      The traditional U-trap can fail if abandoned or isn't used regularly too. The water eventually evaporates.
      - eru 16y ago
        Happened to me regularly when returning from summer holidays.
        ars 16y ago
        To prevent it, put a small amount of mineral oil (baby oil) in the trap. It will float on top and prevent the water from evaporating.
        eru 16y ago
        I guess vegetable oil should also work? By the way, I heard of the same trick for keeping water in your vases.
        deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
        ars 16y ago
        Vegetable oil will oxidize and turn into a sticky mess.
        eru 16y ago
        OK, thanks.
- misterbwong 16y ago
  They should design a "self cleaning" model that actually uses the piping behind the urinal to flush once a week or so. It seems like this would resolve the need to rely on human maintenance, although the urinal wouldn't truly be waterless anymore.

dtf 16y ago

It's not just the trade unions. Here's a quote from a similar story in the Washington Post: "Users complain that high-efficiency toilets, which use less water than traditional models, require two flushes to do the job. Behind such objections stands this truth: America remains a flush-oriented society, and the more powerful the flush, the better. "It was a morale issue," Anja S. Caldwell, green building chief for the Montgomery County public school system, said of initial resistance to the 50 waterless urinals introduced over the past year. "People thought that by taking the flush away, you're taking an entitlement." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/02/AR2006060201831.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06...

SoftwareMaven 16y ago
If that's what people think, then by all means, get all flushing urinals out of our society. I would readily give the gallon of water from my urinal to my "standard" toilet flush for when I need it. ___ [ ] --- (@) -

agentultra 16y ago

Been happening with coal since the introduction of nuclear power. The anti-nuclear/anti-weaponization movement didn't help either. Great article. Just goes to show that there's still so much more to innovate out there.

EliAndrewC 16y ago

I'd say that this is especially relevant to hackers in corporate environments because of this passage: "Hansen heard a flood of complaints early on: The urinals stank. They were dirty. Where was the flush handle? In one building, the complaints were so vociferous that Hansen started an investigation. He found that the bathrooms did indeed stink, but the urinals appeared clean .... ... The urinals, however, emitted nothing. The cartridges were doing their job. Hansen moved the sewer vent and replaced the cracked toilet. The complaints stopped. Hansen concluded that the smell had always been there, but people didn’t have anything to blame it on until the new urinals arrived." I've experienced this many times. I create/modify/install PROGRAM_X and immediately receive complaints that it's causing problems on the server where it's running. Investigation eventually reveals that these problems have been going on for some time, but now there's something to blame. I'm sure I'm not alone.